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Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ?

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jCarroll

01-12-2000 17:40:52

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I need to haul a nearly full acetylene cylinder from point A to point B - about 30 minute truck ride. Any problem laying the cylinder down in the bed of the truck for the ride?

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Leon Miller

01-17-2000 19:12:10

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Re: Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ? in reply to jCarroll, 01-12-2000 17:40:52

I have been using gas rig for years but didn't really know the fundamentals as it was mostly for cutting and welding as hobby. Enjoyed reading all the posts and learned a lot. I saw the results of where a guy sent his wife to haul back a bottle in the trunk of her lincoln. Bottle leaked & she lit a cigarette. He is now a widow.
It is so easy to make a mistake. Don't know why we are not all dead. I know I have been passed over a number of times. Take care fellows.

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see..now ya started the propane-acetylene wars

01-16-2000 15:02:25

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Re: Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ? in reply to jCarroll, 01-12-2000 17:40:52

dang..should have just said "want to haul cutting gas , up or down"..by the way, always haul secured in upright position with safety caps on..put some covering over it if its going to be in direct sunlight..

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Wardner

01-14-2000 17:50:27

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Re: Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ? in reply to jCarroll, 01-12-2000 17:40:52

I do not know why anyone uses acetylene anymore unless it is for welding. I think that most of us use our torches for heating and cutting. MIG and TIG have replaced much of what used to be gas welded. A much cheaper and safer alternative is propane. Oxy-propane uses the same torch as oxy-acetelene. It requires a different tip and that is a blessing becauses they hardly ever need cleaning and are easy to clean when they do. The customer owns the tank and there is no monthly demurrage charge. And propane is a lot more available than acetelene particularly on weekends. A twenty pound propane tank will outlast 4-5 "T" (biggest) oxegen cylinders. The only disadvantage is they are a little harder to ignite in a windy location. Another alternative is gasoline-oxegen. I saw a unit demomstrated at a state fair. It did a nice job but the equipment was expensive.

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Fred Martin

01-16-2000 09:55:30

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Re: Re: Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ? in reply to Wardner, 01-14-2000 17:50:27

I have a junkyard/scrapyard not too far from me and they use propane exclusively, looks like I might add kinda severe usage too. But they have bought me a hand full of tips asking if I could do anything with them. They were slobbered, melted and generally pretty well used up. So propane will eat up tips also. Unskilled labor probably contributes to that. Owner says that it is cheaper than acetylene. (Profit minded and cutting only). I have a bottle of it in my shop that I've tried and it'll cut okay but kinda slow. They say that it's a little dirty to weld or braze with. Seems funny,had a fork lift that ran on it and a year later the oil was just as clean looking as when I put it in. (Don't have an answer for that one)
It doesn't give as much heat as acetylene, about 4800 degs. for propane, about 5900 degs. for acetylene. Some of the jobs I do need all the rosebud heat you can get and sometimes two torches. I don't like to marry a job so I tend to use acetylene most of the time. One thing I have found it to be useful for is one of those propane torches that put out about 500,000 BTUs to preheat a large part with. Dandy for that. Been thinking about trying it on a Heath Ultragraph template controlled flame cutting machine in the shop but that's another story... Fred from the Mung Factory

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Bill From Ontario

01-14-2000 18:29:41

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Re: Re: Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ? in reply to Wardner, 01-14-2000 17:50:27

I started out with acetylene. Then then I switched to MAP gas. It took one tank to figure out I didn't like it. Then I went to propane. That was worse than MAP. I figured I lost more money trying to save money, than if I would've just stuck with the acetylene. My 2 1/2 cents.

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Wardner

01-14-2000 19:41:52

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Re: Re: Re: Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ? in reply to Bill From Ontario, 01-14-2000 18:29:41

To each his own. I used acetylene for ten years, been using propane for the last twenty. But I haven't forgoten all the BS that went along with acetylene such as tip maintenance and precleaning what you need to cut. You can wreck a new acetylene tip within minutes whereas a propane tip under the same conditions will last a long time. I will concede that preheat times are a little longer but I can still cut 6" round bar as well as I used to. The same goes for 1/8 sheet.

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Bill From Ontario

01-14-2000 19:54:40

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ? in reply to Wardner, 01-14-2000 19:41:52

Maybe that's where I'm coming out ahead, I've never had a tip problem with acetylene. But I never had a tip problem with the others either, so your right, to each his own. Thanks

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welder

01-14-2000 19:12:14

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Re: Re: Re: Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ? in reply to Bill From Ontario, 01-14-2000 18:29:41

I run a welding shop i use only propane. i have cut 4" plate with on problem. i braze with, it cut with it,and heat with it.

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Bill From Ontario

01-14-2000 19:30:53

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ? in reply to welder, 01-14-2000 19:12:14

You didn't notice any difference in performance? I couldn't change back over fast enough. I use propane for heating, though.

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welder

01-15-2000 19:32:49

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ? in reply to Bill From Ontario, 01-14-2000 19:30:53

I noticed a big diference in my wallet. $40-50 for aceteline $7-10 for propane. I dont gas weld much but i have done it with propane.

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John

01-14-2000 23:07:20

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ? in reply to Bill From Ontario, 01-14-2000 19:30:53

Acetylene produces the hottest flame plus you you can weld with acetylene is why most welders perfer to still use acetylene.

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Fred Martin

01-14-2000 14:14:50

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Re: Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ? in reply to jCarroll, 01-12-2000 17:40:52

Thanks for kickin this subject around some, (hopefully thorough enough). If we can make one unknowledgeable person think safer than he did before, it was worth it. And sometimes it don't hurt to remind some of us older fellers too. It may sound like some of us more experienced ones kinda go overboard to get a point across but it's only because we don't want you to use up all of your good luck. At least not while you're working. Burrhead has a good safety slogan and so does Steve. You have my permission to throw these in any chance you get. Now, take that Bic lighter out of your shirt pocket and go to cuttin and weldin. (But that's another story) Fred from the Mung Factory

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Tom S.

01-14-2000 11:27:40

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Re: Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ? in reply to jCarroll, 01-12-2000 17:40:52

You guys haul them cylinders anyway that makes you happy, but a cyl with the valve knocked off is still a rocket regardless if it is laying or standing. It won't just stand there regardless if it is discharging up, and no holding device in the world will hold it secure- period.
Bottom line, Make sure cyls are secured in use or any time the caps are not in place. Even those dinky little ones you find in a 'hobby' shop are transported with the caps in place!
All this stuff is inheriently dangerous espically to someone unfamiliar. Tom S.

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Tom S.

01-14-2000 11:26:22

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Re: Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ? in reply to jCarroll, 01-12-2000 17:40:52

You guys haul them cylinders anyway that makes you happy, but a cyl with the valve knocked off is still a rocket regardless if it is laying or standing. It won't just stand there regardless if it is discharging up, and no holding device in the world will hold it secure- period.
Bottom line, Make sure cyls are secured in use or any time the caps are not in place. Even those dinky little ones are transported with the caps in place!
All this stuff is inheriently dangerous espically to someone unfamiliar. Tom S.

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Steve U.S. Alloys

01-14-2000 06:15:45

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Re: Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ? in reply to jCarroll, 01-12-2000 17:40:52

As the feedback on this subject pours in, the reasoning behind signed wavers of liability becomes clear. Everyone who attends our in plant torch and welding safety seminars signs one. You can subject people to information but you can't control their actions. You can only make knowledge available.

These things we talk about are not frivolous guidelines or silly rules carried out to the enth degree. These are procedures that are based in fact and presented to us by scientists who understand the chemical nature of the substances they create.

How many people have worked on an electrical circuit without turning off the power? It was just a small and quick job. Just be careful not to touch both wires at once and don't ground yourself with the hot wire in your hand, right?

Some people can take lot's of chances in life and never get hurt. But, who knows when that luck is gonna run out?

I'm not trying to be a smarta--. I'm trying to drive home a point. If you have someone who loves you, as I'm sure everyone does, be safe for them if not for yourself.
Steve

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Fred Martin

01-13-2000 18:45:00

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Re: Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ? in reply to jCarroll, 01-12-2000 17:40:52

While we're getting close, we might as well talk
about the bomb you got laying down in the back of your truck. It has happened before, so it ought to be kicked around. It's that nasty 'ol oxygen bottle. Someone got the end of it knocked off (probably accident) and it rocketed through the cab,killed the driver,went through the dash and imbedded into the motor. It is a killer! Should you keep the valve in front and let it rocket out the back and maybe kill someone else? Most all of us are guilty of hauling it wrong. Make good New Years resolution. Think about it! Fred from the Mung Factory

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01-13-2000 17:26:59

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Re: Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ? in reply to jCarroll, 01-12-2000 17:40:52

wish someone told me I can't haul my tanks laying down. Have been doing it that way for a long time and the refill place never said nothing. Course,the caps were always on and I didn't use them right away. Probably preferrable to haul them standing up but not always practicle . If I had to use acetalene right away, then upright is something to think of. bo

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Burrhead

01-13-2000 20:14:46

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Re: Re: Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ? in reply to bo, 01-13-2000 17:26:59

I haul mine laying down and have'nt had a problem at all. When I git them back to the shop I stand the acetylene up over night. If I was in a hurry I would still do it that way. If I had racks I would leave them upright tho.
I got one of coastal welding supply's booklets here somewhere.It says to haul them laying down unless you have approved racks for transport, and to stand them up for at least 1 hour before useing.

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jim

01-13-2000 21:35:14

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Re: Re: Re: Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ? in reply to Burrhead, 01-13-2000 20:14:46

Lay em down, but make damn sure caps are on, DOT regulation. Acetylene should stand up right for a while like ol burrhheah said so acetone stablizes. For transporting to and from you can make a pallet like holder and strap the bottles to it.

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Tom S.

01-13-2000 07:04:29

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Re: Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ? in reply to jCarroll, 01-12-2000 17:40:52

I have become more safety conscience since the WD-40 messages recently, but you guys have to be kidding. I have been transporting welding cyls laying down with the caps on for more years than most of you are old. Even the people I buy my welding supplies from lay them flat for me when loading.
I realize there is danger in letting liquid acetone escape, but that is why you stand them up and allow a peroid of hours for the acetone to return to the charcoal or sponge what ever in the bottom. I further understand that they are transported upright on a service truck so they can be readily used without fear of liquid escape and having to wait.
My understanding of the process taught to me in trade school was the liquid acetone was pumped into the tank and reacted with the charcoal whatever bed in the bottom under a little pressuer to create the acetylene gas. These cylinders have a service life of whatever that material is in the bottom.
I am going to get like Burrhead on this one. Mr. Carroll, close the valves tightly, take the regs off, put the caps on, then TOSS THEM CYLS IN THE BACK AND GO ON! You might want to crack the valves after they have been standing for a couple of hours to make sure no liquid still wants to come out, and go into the reg after you put it on. Acetone won't kill you immediatly. It's a good solvent. Tom S.

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Burrhead

01-13-2000 14:22:41

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Re: Re: Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ? in reply to Tom S., 01-13-2000 07:04:29

I could'nt have said it any better myself. Hang in there Tom S. You can be safe several times any day, but you can only git killed once.
jakee is really safe 2, so I listen to him also.

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Dick L

01-13-2000 15:24:43

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Re: Re: Re: Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ? in reply to Burrhead, 01-13-2000 14:22:41

I have always hauled my tanks laying down also Burr, but last year a lady clerk at the welding supply store made go back in the store and sign a waver when she saw me lay the tank down in the back of my pickup. She said that it was a Fed. law that I had to have them standing up. She said that if the top gets knocked open that it becomes a missile and someone could get killed. Since then I take a tarp. I always lay them so they can't roll or slide. You would have to build a tank holder to haul them upright once or twice a year. Not me!

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Aaron

01-13-2000 16:41:47

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ? in reply to Dick L, 01-13-2000 15:24:43

They do a lot more than become missiles. The stuff is unstable, so they put acetone in (as mentioned before). Leaving them flat can cause them to get unstable and make big messes. I am sure that you have never hada problem with them and will continue to haul them your way, but there are a lot of reasons to haul them vertical. And, no, you don't need some kind of holder. We tie ours in the corner stake pocket of our pickup. Never had a problem and we've hauled quite a few of them around.
Aaron

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Burrhead

01-13-2000 20:08:03

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ? in reply to Aaron, 01-13-2000 16:41:47

I saw where an oxygen bottle got hit and went across the street and totalled a semi out. I did'nt see it when it happened, but I saw the mess afterwards. The feller did'nt tie it up or even have the caps on and it turned over in a pick up bed and went ballistic. It blew out through the side of the pickup bed and traveled about 150' and demolished a cabover Kenworth.

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Tim(ny)

01-14-2000 10:12:13

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ? in reply to Burrhead, 01-13-2000 20:08:03

I would think that laying one down in a pickup with the cap on, nothing short of getting hit by a train would knock the cap and neck off. But if you tie it up, and it comes loose, it can FALL down, and that could knock the cap and neck off. An acetylene tank won't become a missle, because it isn't at 3000psi, like oxygen. It won't explode spontaneously, because it will be at less than 15psi, but a single spark will touch off both acetylene and acetone, as they're both highly flammable. I'll continue to haul mine laying down with a shim to prevent rolling back and fourth, and stand it up overnight before I use it. Just my $.02.

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Mr Safety

01-15-2000 06:21:24

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ? in reply to Tim(ny), 01-14-2000 10:12:13

Instead of of hauling your acetylene tanks laying down why don't you just step out in front of a speeding semi truck? It's alot less work and the results are similar. Just my $.02

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Mr Safety

01-15-2000 06:21:05

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ? in reply to Tim(ny), 01-14-2000 10:12:13

Instead of of hauling your acetylene tanks laying down why don't you just step out in front of a speeding semi truck? It's alot less work and the results are similar. Just my $.02

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Steve U.S. Alloys

01-13-2000 05:05:29

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Re: Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ? in reply to jCarroll, 01-12-2000 17:40:52

Hello JCarrol,
Thanks for the vote of confidence CB. Acetylene (C2H2) is unstable at pressures above 15# psig. To overcome this, the cylinder is filled with a substance that absorbs acetone. The substance may be Pith (made from corn stalks) or fullers earth for example. The theory is that each molecule of acetylene sets between two molecules of acetone. This allows the C2H2 to be pressurized. It is therefore critical to maintain acetone content in suffient quantity. To do that, never store the cylinder on it's side allowing the acetone to accumulate. Never use a cylinder laying flat. Never consume more than one seventh of the cylinder's capacity per hour. Never allow regulator or manifold pressure to exceed 15#psig. All these things would lead to acetone being drawn off possibly to the point that the C2H2 becomes unstable. Also, never make a manifold from copper. Use brass or black iron pipe. One tell tale sign of acetone in the flame is the purplish color the flame exhibits.

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catblaster

01-12-2000 18:18:42

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Re: Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ? in reply to jCarroll, 01-12-2000 17:40:52

always up whether you are hauling or storing. I remember someone in the Navy telling me that they were required to stand up for 24 hours after being laid flat, may have been BS but it made sense at the time. I had one occasion where I laid a B tank flat so when I went to use it acetone sprayed out of the torch. I'll bet Steve will know exactly what the requirements are.

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Bill From Ontario

01-12-2000 17:47:09

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Re: Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ? in reply to jCarroll, 01-12-2000 17:40:52

Always up, with the regulator off.

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carl

02-19-2000 18:47:51

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Re: Re: Hauling acetylene cylinder up or flat ? in reply to Bill From Ontario, 01-12-2000 17:47:09

why not upside down.... that way when she blows she goes..LOL just kidding guys

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