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Welding Question

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Terry c

12-26-1999 12:32:20

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I have a steering sector gear that broke from its mounting bolts. It looks like cast steel. I'm looking for info on how to weld cast steel. Does one treat it like cast iron and preheat it? How hot does it have to be? Should I pack it in sand to control the temp ? Please advise Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

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Thanks Steve...

12-28-1999 07:23:57

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Re: Welding Question in reply to Terry c, 12-26-1999 12:32:20

for helping kick this one around. Hope we helped someone with the knowledge. I will make a comment on your post though. Say (iron) after FE and instead of 3or4 points say 3or4% carbon. Most of the guys on here might not understand otherwise.
I have used the bronze electrodes you talk about and they work real good. (Aerisweld by Lincoln) You just have to have a DC machine. Enough on this one, what are we gonna kick next? Martensitic,Pearlitic Austenitic,molecular bombardment or intergranular corrosion? Naaa
Lets weld something tough like malleable iron. Theres a lot of that on this old farm equipment.
Thanks again. Fred from the Mung Factory

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Fred Martin

12-27-1999 16:59:54

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Re: Welding Question in reply to Terry c, 12-26-1999 12:32:20

Subject: Suggested electrodes for specific steels
re: carbon steel castings LH 7018 or 8018C3 ASTM spec. No. A216 Hmmmm
re: carbon and alloy steel castings LH 7018, 8018, 9018 and LH11018 ASTM spec. No. A643 Hmmmm
question: What is the difference between stainless steel and nickel rod? Ans. they're mostly nickel and chrome but nickel rod is more nickel than stainless so it will be soft and stretch with the weld. (cast iron has weak tensile strength). That's why one mfg. calls it Softweld. Hmmmm To me it can't be softer than stainless and still be stronger. Hmmmm
As far as plugging up the cast, we are welding cast steel and it is a fusion bond not a mechanical bond like brazing. So you don't need to worry about chipping or chiseling any steel when prepping, just grind it and thats all. Hmmmm Fred from the Mung Factory

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Steve US Alloys

12-28-1999 06:02:12

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Re: Re: Welding Question in reply to Fred Martin, 12-27-1999 16:59:54

One of the problems inherent in repair welding is the fact that we seldom know the type or grade of the material to be repaired. A simple spark test can be performed to help get you in the ball park. I had a man yesterday that called after welding a part with a nickel electrode thinking it was cast iron. Don't know what manufacturer. Doesn't matter. The weld bead split down the middle as the part cooled. We determined the part to be cast steel. Probably T-1. If you have a scrap you know to be cast iron, hold it to your bench grinder, compare the sparks from the scrap to the part you intend to weld. They should be the same length, shape and color.
As far as the difference between stainless steel and nickel electrodes: There are more than a dozen variations in the 316 type stainless alone. Example;UNS 31603 is a low carbon grade of type 316. It is an austenitic Cr-Ni-Mo w/16% to 18% Cr and 10% to 14% NI. Except for about 7% other elements, the balance is Fe. Nickel electrodes are 99% Ni or a combo of something close to 1/2 Ni and 1/2 Fe commonly called ferro nickel. The main advantage to welding cast with nickel is the fact that carbon is not soluable in nickel (cast iron is 3 to 4 points carbon) and the boundary zone will therefore not tend to remanufacture into chilled cast iron as the part cools. An aluminum bronze electrode works well for cast iron also. A hot process powder torch combines the advantages of brazing with the advantages of the nickel based filler metal. In other words, it's not strength it's ductlity we are after as the end result.

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Bill From Ontario

12-27-1999 17:26:20

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Re: Re: Welding Question in reply to Fred Martin, 12-27-1999 16:59:54

Sorry, I misread the question. I ment to say cast iron, not cast steel. My most humble appology. Bill

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Torpedoe

12-28-1999 06:33:29

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Re: Re: Re: Welding Question in reply to Bill From Ontario, 12-27-1999 17:26:20

Hope we didn't get so much info across that we got the original poster confused. I was worried that the next time I'm up in Ontario fishin that you'd come around the corner with a torpedoe on your boat. I can't weld that fiberglass worth a darn.
I apologize to you too, I'd much rather have my hands on a good Hobart or Airco welder than one of these confounded contraptions. This is the only machine that I have not mastered. I guess it's because not much of it relates to the mechanical end of things. Oh well, better git or I'm liable to get "Long poster of the year award". Fred from the Mung Factory

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BFO.....Disarmed

12-28-1999 09:36:02

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Welding Question in reply to Torpedoe, 12-28-1999 06:33:29

:-)

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12-27-1999 14:58:02

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Re: Welding Question in reply to Terry c, 12-26-1999 12:32:20

I have been welding for some while. The US alloy stuff will probably work but I would bet is quite expensive. I have most always welded cast steel with 7018 and preheat. I would save that expensive nichol rod for cast iron.

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Bill From Ontario

12-27-1999 09:38:21

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Re: Welding Question in reply to Terry c, 12-26-1999 12:32:20

Not to take anything from the other advice, but, I don't agree. What you probably have is cast steel. 7018, and 8018 have high internal stresses and require heat treating after welding. Do not use stainless rod with cast, it simply won't be strong enough. Stick to nickle rod, or the exotic stuff, that's what it's made for. Before I weld cast, I v-out the pieces using a die grinder and carbide burr. This doesn't "plug-up" the cast, and lets the weld material take hold. I also have a 250 degree temp. stick handy, and preheat using a propane torch. Clean out the welds thoroughly between passes, post heat, and wrap in an asbestos blanket to prevent cracking. I would be interested in trying Steve's method, it sounds less labour intensive, but this is what works for me. Bill

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Fred Martin

12-27-1999 09:20:56

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Re: Welding Question in reply to Terry c, 12-26-1999 12:32:20

Hi Terry from Fred
First off, lets try to determine if it's a casting or a forging. After a part is hit in a drop hammer (forging) it then goes into a trim die. It'll have a shear cut on all surfaces (at the die parting line) all the way around it except where it was machined. A casting will have evidence of grinding at the parting line because thats how they remove the flash from it. Either one will probably be of an alloy steel and can usually be succesfully welded using low hydrogen rod (7018 or 8018) or stainless steel rod by an experienced welder. It won't hurt to preheat it to about 400 degs.F (Bright metal will start to turn purple at that temperature). And if the break is in the teeth area it must be clamped to something flat before welding so they'll be minimum warpage. If the break is next to a threaded area, you may need to thread a piece of carbon and screw into the threads. If n/a, pack it full of asbestos or ceramic wool to protect the threads.If it's clamped to a welding bench and you want to cool it slow, cover it with lime or something like that. Just make sure that it isn't something that will burn and turn to carbon and induce it into the weld. That could make things nasty. (I had a girl friend like that once and she weren't no good either). Well anyhow, I don't go for the exotic rods too much anymore, a weld can be made too good (they're expensive as 7734), But they have their place and on the forum I think we're hunting a cheap efficient way out. No offense to Steve, his method will work too. Fred from the Mung Factory

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Steve US Alloys

12-27-1999 07:06:48

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Re: Welding Question in reply to Terry c, 12-26-1999 12:32:20

Hi Terry,
I'm going to tell you how to weld cast steel but, I have a comment first. I have no clue as to what a steering sector gear is. Sounds like a safety related deal to me. Is the liability great here? For those who have metal like you've got we have a product that welds everything but the crack of dawn and a broken heart. One electrode for covering many different types of steel to avoid inventory of several different products. Cast steel would of course be in that category. For welding cast steel with this product indoors, at room temp, no preheat is required. Vee out the area to be welded on both sides. Also grind the top of the 'V' clean so the edges of the bead will flow out nicely. Run stringer beads and multi-pass if necessary. Chip the slag between passes. Peening is not required but slow cooling is recommended. Accomplish this by burying the part in floor dry, cat litter, lime, etc. Finish by grinding if so desired for cosmetics. Product #2200 has a 120,000PSI tensile as welded and work toughens to 200,000 PSI. You can weld all ferrous metals with this alloy. Hardness is RC35 so machining is best done in the warm state. ( not Florida) Sorry. I will include the URL in case you are interested. www.usalloysweldtech.com or 1-800-325-1568. Mention the web site and receive a discount. No minimums.

U.S. Alloys

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