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Overseas steel

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fordson29

01-14-2002 07:00:07




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Has anyone else noticed that if you go to the local steel yard that every piece of steel is from overseas?? Are there any founderys left in USA?? It is amazing to me you can ship a piece of steel that weighs 1000 pounds cheaper then just making it here. Why is USA so self destructive? Is it the $$$$$?? Jonathan




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Where will it end?

01-18-2002 07:20:28




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 Re: overseas steel in reply to fordson29, 01-14-2002 07:00:07  
About 5 years ago Trico Steel opened a new mini mill near me. Several companys built proccesing plants on adjoining property and they transported the steel coils to them with huge farm tractor and a monster trailer. Last year Trico went bankrupt and closed the mill. Now steel is shipped in to the proccesing plants from China and Russia by barge. This is the global econemy they politicians say is so good for us in action.

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GPWT

01-17-2002 09:25:01




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 Re: Re: overseas steel in reply to Trucker, 01-16-2002 22:17:46  
Sorry, it's not caused by politicians'ignorance. These crooks in DC KNOW what they are doing. That makes it treason!



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Steve U.S. Alloys

01-16-2002 05:37:32




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 Re: overseas steel in reply to fordson29, 01-14-2002 07:00:07  
Just wanted to add something here.

I read a couple of days ago..... . "it is predicted that by the year 2050, the U.S. economy will be rated as third world."

Also, a known fact today,..... . Thermadyne, who owns Victor Equipment, Arc Air, Tweco, Stellite, and so on..... ..is in bankruptcy.



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Dave in Mo

01-16-2002 04:44:37




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 Re: overseas steel in reply to fordson29, 01-14-2002 07:00:07  
The reason the foreign steel is cheap is because they cheat. Almost 30 years ago I bid a job for making ring metal binder parts. High speed press work. Known technology, right? I couldn't buy the steel locally for what the Japs sold their end product. Tooling, production, material, packaging and shipping et all. No way they weren't being helped by somebody. Turns out it was a subsidy which paid all their material costs. And yeah, they could afford it too. How? At the time, they had no Defence costs at all. Poured all that tax money into commerce to run the other guys out of business..... and in effect the U.S. was paying their defense bill for them. Stabbing in the back!

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Nolan

01-16-2002 03:28:14




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 Re: overseas steel in reply to fordson29, 01-14-2002 07:00:07  
The mega sized steel companies in the US are in trouble, or even dead, that's true. But the littler US steel companies are alive and well. There's a story in that.

The huge companies, like Bethlehem Steel, have never advanced their equipment beyond the 1940's technology that they made a lot of money with over half a century ago. The corporate executives also kept the mindset of that long ago time. As such, they did themselves in.

The smaller steel companies on the other hand have stayed current with technology and the market. They have been able to produce steel, affordably, and make a profit at the same time.

That's it in a nut shell, as I see it and understand it.

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Scott Green

01-18-2002 07:38:31




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 Re: Re: overseas steel in reply to Nolan, 01-16-2002 03:28:14  
I have to agree with you , Nolan. I work at an industial boiler factory. They buy tubing from all over the world. The best tubing we get in is from Japan. Very concentric. Within .002 - .003. Wall thickness is about the same. I would say that France is the next best in line , although still a long ways from the quality of the Japan tubing. The rest of the world , including the US , has very crude tubing. A person can tell it is made with out dated worn out equipment. The US made tubing is among the worst I have seen.

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mcj

01-15-2002 22:35:09




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 Re: overseas steel in reply to fordson29, 01-14-2002 07:00:07  
Most of the farm implements (and probably tractors also) that are made in India are made from recycled steel. They buy old cargo container ships and hire workers by the thousands to disassemble them by hand. These guys are paid very little (even by Indian standards) and work themselves into an early grave. The accident rate among these workers is horrible. Take a look at where your next drawbar or plow point is made.

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GPWT

01-15-2002 15:19:56




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 Re: overseas steel in reply to fordson29, 01-14-2002 07:00:07  
Our mills are as efficient as any in the world, Europe and Japan have higher labor rates than the US, and shipping is not cheap either. Obviously these oversees producers are being subsidised, and in some cases, the money comes from the American taxpayers. Clinton's 40 Billion $ baleout of Mexico several years ago is a perfect example of this.
The US is patiently and passively lying down on the operating table while our oversees enemies pull our teeth and claws, and make us totally helpless. See what happens when they are finished with that!
The real blame lies with our "friends" in Washington who have been allowing foreign countries to tax or ban American products, while Washington allows them to ship as much here as they want. They are traitors!!!
The truth is not pretty, but unless and until Americans wake up we will someday be reduced to slaves.

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Irv

01-14-2002 17:32:35




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 Re: overseas steel in reply to fordson29, 01-14-2002 07:00:07  
Manufacturing is being destroyed in this country. Between our giveaway trade agreements, that are strip mining our jobs out of our country, and the exchange rates that are ridiculus, we are losing our industrial base. Last december the Wall Street Journal reported on the hard times in Juarsz Mexico. It seems that as of Sept. 2001 they had lost 50,000 jobs! It seems that they no longer work cheap enough. The work is being sent to China. How much are we supposed to lower our standard of living to compete? I think this recession could get much worse. Irv

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God Bless the American worker.

01-14-2002 15:23:04




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 Re: overseas steel in reply to fordson29, 01-14-2002 07:00:07  
You can't make steel any cheaper if your labor works four hours out of a twelve hour day and expects twelve hour a day pay for their four hours of contribution. Same as you can't make steel any cheaper if you top management and CEO's are collecting bonuses when the companies are not making money. CAN YOU SAY LAZY. It's a damn shame that the same companies that are going out of business helped to bring the foreign steel into this country and sell it as their own.

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Vic

01-14-2002 14:43:23




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 Re: overseas steel in reply to fordson29, 01-14-2002 07:00:07  
Don't forget about all the added expense of the Environment Protection mechanisms required to produce steel in this country. It is very expensive!



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Glenn(WV): Excellent point!

01-14-2002 19:24:13




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 Re: Re: overseas steel in reply to Vic, 01-14-2002 14:43:23  
Having worked in the environmental business, I can say that the regulation is extreme in many cases. I have no problem with keeping things clean, but the EPA in many cases wants industry to clean things up beyond even that which occurs naturally. It's a pipe dream that the greenie-weenies love.



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and don't forget good old union labor

01-14-2002 11:27:58




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 Re: overseas steel in reply to fordson29, 01-14-2002 07:00:07  
that goes on strike so they can get 20 million an hour instead of the 19.5 they receive now, etc. etc etc



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slotho

01-14-2002 14:57:05




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 Re: Re: overseas steel in reply to and don't forget good old union labor, 01-14-2002 11:27:58  
i beg your pardon labor is nothing unless it,s on the top end all the guys who are making steel want is a fair wage



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Burrhead

01-19-2002 21:51:46




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 Re: Re: Re: overseas steel in reply to slotho, 01-14-2002 14:57:05  
Union worker is a play on words anyway. If the worker is union, then he aint really a worker.



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Glenn(WV)

01-14-2002 10:28:31




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 Re: overseas steel in reply to fordson29, 01-14-2002 07:00:07  
It's not a matter of the USA being self-destructive as it is foreign governments trying to put the US steel companies out of business. Most foreign steelmakers are subsidized by their governments, which enables them to sell the steel on the US market at prices below their production costs. Russia, South Korea, and many other foreign countries sell their steel here at below-cost prices. How can US steelmakers compete? Is it any wonder that eighteen US steel companies have gone into Chapter 11 bankruptcy? Yes, the foreign countries often times have a lower cost of production, but in the past, their steel has proven to be inferior in many cases.

To its credit, the Bush administration is strongly considering charging tariffs on foreign steel. The dumping of any imported product in the USA is illegal. The feds have already decided that dumping of foreign steel in the USA is going on, so I look for them to take action. Clinton and company wouldn't take action for fear of making foreign countries mad(boo-hoo on them). I think Bush will take action.

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Keith Morris

01-14-2002 15:57:02




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 Re: Re: overseas steel in reply to Glenn(WV), 01-14-2002 10:28:31  
I used to be a welder and nothing made me madder than to have to use the crappy steel from overseas if you try to cut it with a torch big chunks of dirt will fall out and leave you with a big hole. Also the strength is not as good as US steel. Now all you can get in this area is the overseas stuff. And you don't want to get me started on damn foreign winch cables.



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John in Maryland

01-14-2002 16:51:30




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 Re: Re: Re: overseas steel in reply to Keith Morris, 01-14-2002 15:57:02  
Talking about winch cables...At the tractor dealer I work at, they gotta IH rollback truck. Well, the cable that was on the winch was getting pretty frayend and had some flat spots in it. My boss, bought heavier than was on it but was made in china or something, but was cheaper than the same size that was originally on it but was made in US. Well, the truck driver was winching up a IH 1066 tractor....he had just thrown the chain across the front and had it hooked, but not tightened yet, as he was gonna pull it tight w/winch somewhat, then put a binder on it and chain the back. He walked around the truck at the back and BOOM the cable snapped. The tractor rolled 3' and the chain caught it, luckilly didn't break. He was lucky. My boss went and got the US made stuff and hasn't had a problem yet. Apparently the china stuff had a "bad spot" it it.

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John in Maryland

01-14-2002 16:51:55




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 Re: Re: Re: overseas steel in reply to Keith Morris, 01-14-2002 15:57:02  
Talking about winch cables...At the tractor dealer I work at, they gotta IH rollback truck. Well, the cable that was on the winch was getting pretty frayend and had some flat spots in it. My boss, bought heavier than was on it but was made in china or something, but was cheaper than the same size that was originally on it but was made in US. Well, the truck driver was winching up a IH 1066 tractor....he had just thrown the chain across the front and had it hooked, but not tightened yet, as he was gonna pull it tight w/winch somewhat, then put a binder on it and chain the back. He walked around the truck at the back and BOOM the cable snapped. The tractor rolled 3' and the chain caught it, luckilly didn't break. He was lucky. My boss went and got the US made stuff and hasn't had a problem yet. Apparently the china stuff had a "bad spot" it it.

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JesseH

01-14-2002 09:16:36




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 Re: overseas steel in reply to fordson29, 01-14-2002 07:00:07  
Seems as the majority of steel I have purchased over the past few years says "Canada" on it. Still another way we shoot ourselves in the foot.



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Branden

01-15-2002 11:11:39




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 Re: Re: overseas steel in reply to JesseH, 01-14-2002 09:16:36  
Better to have products from Canada than China.

As for steel, I haven't had any bad luck with that. I tend to think that the larger manufacturers in this country buy steel from overseas so that they can make money on what they save from not buying American. Blame the Government all you want when it comes to free trade, but in the end, the buying decision comes down to you the consumer. If you want to buy American, buy American. Most of you guys act like our products are obsolete. I know differently, you want quality, you have to look for it, and usually pay extra. I don't have a problem with either. You could buy 2 Chinese made cables for the same price as a good American made one, and probably never have to buy one again. As far as electronics go, especially the onboard computers on cars, sorry guys, but Japan is WAY ahead of the U.S. in that department, but then again, we're talking about steel.

Branden

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big fred

01-16-2002 08:03:24




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 Re: Re: Re: overseas steel in reply to Branden, 01-15-2002 11:11:39  
I disagree on the electronics. American made electronics are the best and most reliable in the world, with our only real competitors in hi-reliability electronics being some European companies. Only place you'll find those hi-rel electronics is in aircraft and military, though, where the higher cost is not as much a factor. We have tried to contract with Japanese electronics companies, and sure they are inexpensive, but they are not reliable. In fact, one of the major companies has achieved a terrible reputation for quality.

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jim

01-14-2002 14:30:34




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 Re: Re: overseas steel in reply to JesseH, 01-14-2002 09:16:36  
And all the farm equipment we buy here in Canada says Made in the USA.



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fordson29

01-14-2002 14:45:44




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 Re: Re: Re: overseas steel in reply to jim, 01-14-2002 14:30:34  
Canada has always supported us. I was not trying to start a war. I haven't looked at a map in a while but the last time I checked there was no sea there. Now Mexico when have they ever stood behind us??



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bob

01-14-2002 15:01:12




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: overseas steel in reply to fordson29, 01-14-2002 14:45:44  
just what do we really make besides a few cars and farm mach. i alaways thought China was crowded but they sure have found room for factories somewhere



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