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Air Lines, one more time.

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F14

01-02-2002 14:03:31

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I plan to plumb my shop too, and got a great deal of excellent info from the thread below.

I'll probably go with black iron as the best compromise between price and safety.

One thing that didn't seem to come up was the size of pipe to use. I plan to plumb the whole shop to allow for future expansion. Right now it'll be all air tools, biggest air hawg would be a 1/2" impact wrench. Would like to be able to run a blasting cabinet at some point, assuming I hit the Lotto so I can afford to buy one.

What size pipe would you recommend? 25' max run from compressor to outlet point.

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DumOleBob

01-03-2002 14:28:06

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Re: Air Lines, one more time. in reply to F14, 01-02-2002 14:03:31

All the other aside the best "tip" you've gotten is to get a TP Tools catalog and look at their air system drawings! Even I can follow them!!!

Also, on their web site click on the TIPS & TECHINACAL button for good advice on air systems, painteing a blasting.

Click for TP TOOLS

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FOR CRYING OUT LOUD

01-03-2002 09:40:43

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Re: Air Lines, one more time. in reply to F14, 01-02-2002 14:03:31

At the risk of beating a dead horse - over & over again, which is what us well intended folks are doing - on this the most popular question - AIR LINES.

If you are running less than say 80'to 90'and at most a 1/2" Impact, + blast cabinet, etc. in a single person shop - go with 1/2" black iron & be done with it. You'll spend more time reading these posts than plumbing the system.

Finally, what does your wife think? I always find checking with mine FIRST saves lots of time. I'm feelin' ornery this am. Good luck!

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F14

01-03-2002 12:06:39

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Re: Re: Air Lines, one more time. in reply to FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, 01-03-2002 09:40:43

I follow gubbermint guidelnes when it comes to my shop: "don't ask - don't tell".

If, on rare occasions, she does notice something, I say "That? Heck, that's been there for years."

And when that doesn't work, I rely on Dwight Eisenhower's advice: "Duck and cover"...

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Jerry A.

01-03-2002 06:03:20

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Re: Air Lines, one more time. in reply to F14, 01-02-2002 14:03:31

I used 3/4" black pipe for the main trunks on my system--- 2 branches of at least 60' and one up to the ceiling and down the other wall...probably at least 80'. Plenty of air at the other end. Couldn't go wrond with larger diameter, but a bear to work with 1" if you don't have to.

I'd strongly think about metal (steel or copper) over the PVC/CPVC.

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F14

01-03-2002 09:37:09

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Re: Re: Air Lines, one more time. in reply to Jerry A., 01-03-2002 06:03:20

Not even considering plastic. With the freeze-thaw cycles we see here, the whole concept just scares the bejabbers outta me.

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cornfused

01-02-2002 18:27:44

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Re: Air Lines, one more time. in reply to F14, 01-02-2002 14:03:31

14 I've seen several shops around here plumbed with cpvc. Some have been in for 10 plus years and I have never heard of a blow out or leak. I am thinking about using it in my shop unless somebody can show me why I shouldnt. It's a heck of a lot cheaper and easier to work with!

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Mike

01-04-2002 06:08:02

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Re: Re: Air Lines, one more time. in reply to cornfused, 01-02-2002 18:27:44

I ran yellow (hi-temp) pvc around the garage last summer. The joints held fine, but an 8 foot section exploded last week. There wasn't a piece of it bigger than a pencil left of that 4 ft piece at one end and went all over the place. Glad it happened in the overnight when nobody was around

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Roger

01-02-2002 17:19:25

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Re: Air Lines, one more time. in reply to F14, 01-02-2002 14:03:31

I have seen a really nice home made blasting cabinet made out of an oval 200 gal heating oil tank, cut all the way round and hinged at about 2/3 up the tank. The owner had welded a rim around the inside to lay a piece of expanded metal on to rest the workpiece on, and had a small window mounted in a bolt together frame held in place by wingnuts for easy changing. It was really nice, and didn't look too hard to build. Shouldn't be too hard to rig up a vacuum cleaner dust recovery system, and the openings at the bottome of the tank would aid in changing used blasting media.

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Johnny in E.Tx

01-02-2002 15:39:56

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Re: Air Lines, one more time. in reply to F14, 01-02-2002 14:03:31

3/4" has plenty of capacity.

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bill b va

01-02-2002 14:57:43

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Re: Air Lines, one more time. in reply to F14, 01-02-2002 14:03:31

first you got to know max air compsumpion in cfm for your largest (tool) air user . (that should not exceed the compressor out put) or you will have decreased performace . that will determine the pipe size unless you have more than one user at the same time then you need to determine the total cfm of all simintionusly operating tools and go from there .... f14 my guess for your 25 ft.... 1/2 in pipe should be fine . most people here seem to think copper is the most expensive . compare the prices of copper and threaded fittings and the time involved and you may change your mind .an old plumber straightened my butt out..... .bill b va

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F14

01-02-2002 15:04:19

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Re: Re: Air Lines, one more time. in reply to bill b va, 01-02-2002 14:57:43

If I read that thread correctly, for safety you should use rigid copper and silver solder. I might cheat on the solder a little, but it was my impression that the high pressure copper was more expensive than iron pipe.

I'll shop around first, thanks for the input.

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bill b va

01-02-2002 16:22:25

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Re: Re: Re: Air Lines, one more time. in reply to F14, 01-02-2002 15:04:19

no need to use silver solder . a good solid sweat joint is just fine .the silver solder is for the heat and vibration of refregiation and air conditioning and other high pressue systems

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Greg S

01-02-2002 14:29:18

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Re: Air Lines, one more time. in reply to F14, 01-02-2002 14:03:31

Fawteen,
1" iron pipe will carry 50 cfm free air (6.4 cfm of compressed air) starting at 100 psig with pressure drop of about 7 psi per 1000 feet of pipe. 3/4" at the same volumes will drop 25 psi. I would probably do it with 1" and 3/4" drops and then it would not need upgrading again unless you really change equipment and operation. JMHO.

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BillD

01-02-2002 14:35:50

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Re: Re: Air Lines, one more time. in reply to Greg S, 01-02-2002 14:29:18

Fawteen The way Greg describes is the way my shop is set up I have not had a problem running a blast cabinet ,air tools or painting

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bill b va

01-02-2002 16:39:08

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Re: Re: Re: Air Lines, one more time. in reply to BillD, 01-02-2002 14:35:50

give me and f14 a break 1000ft is right at 1/5 mile and all he has is 25 feet .explain psig versus psia and then we will know where we are

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Greg S

01-03-2002 07:31:51

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Air Lines, one more time. in reply to bill b va, 01-02-2002 16:39:08

psia is absolute pressure- basically the atmospheric pressure at your elevation. In SE WY the absolute pressure is about 11.7 psia. psig is gage pressure and is the sum of absolute pressure plus the compressed pressure or in other words 125 psig (gage) is a real life usable pressure of 113 psi (125 -11.7).

My recommendation of 1" and 3/4" drops is overkill but it was made based on experience of both a mechanical consulting engineer ( I've never seen an original installation get smaller over time) and my experience with the farm I inherited from my Dad. I've spent the last 5 years upgrading things that he did to make them fit the way I do things. In F-14's case the cost difference of 25' of pipe 1" vs 3/4" is less than 10.00 and the difference in fitting cost is probably less than that. For 20.00 difference he could put in a system that probably neither he or his kids will ever have to change. JMHO.

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Swilly

01-02-2002 16:48:06

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Air Lines, one more time. in reply to bill b va, 01-02-2002 16:39:08

2.5 psi drop over 100' w/ 3/4 sounds acceptable to me. 1" is $1.06/ft and 3/4" is $.75/ft around here.

FWIW

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F14

01-02-2002 15:05:28

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Re: Re: Re: Air Lines, one more time. in reply to BillD, 01-02-2002 14:35:50

Thanks, Bill. I'll go with those dimensions then.

Gotta love this board...

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Bus Driver

01-03-2002 17:25:07

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Air Lines, one more time. in reply to F14, 01-02-2002 15:05:28

Haven't gotten around to putting permanent lines in my shop yet. For a single run from the compressor to the point of use, the 3/4" is a good choice. My plan for my shop was to run 1/2" pipe loop for the entire perimeter of the shop above the top of the doors (yes, there would have to be a pipe union to accomplish this). When using air at any point, the air can flow to that point from each side of the loop. Figured this would get air efficiently to all points in the shop. But it remains to be actually tried.

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