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Pipe tape/dope

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paul

11-22-2001 18:05:29




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I'm putting together some piping by the barn for the cattle water. What's the better stuff to use on the threads, or does it really matter? Galvinised pipe, couple brass (or whatever, copper?) valves in the chain.

Teflon tape, pipe dope, 'tpe' dope - any differences?

--->Paul




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RayP(MI)

11-23-2001 17:13:02




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 Re: pipe tape/dope in reply to paul, 11-22-2001 18:05:29  
I've gone through the gamut of thread dopes, and found that in time they will harden and freeze the joint together like there's no tomorrow! I have not had success with teflon tape, by the time you've turned the threads one revolution it's gone! Have had good success with the silicone sealants. Not only do they lubricate the threads, they seal leaks, and they prevent the joints from freezing up, in case someone has to take them apart some time. Right now, my favorite is Ultra Blue by permatex.

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T_Bone

11-23-2001 08:22:46




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 Re: pipe tape/dope in reply to paul, 11-22-2001 18:05:29  
Paul,
If you use tape start two threads from the end of pipe and wrap 3 times minmium. Thats in the code book and works well.

Difference that I've found is after years of being screwed together, pipe dope will come apart easier than tape and looks like the day you installed the joint. But I've had both hold for years without problems.

Since it's buried galvanzied pipe, I suggest you buy some roofing mastic, thin with gasoline and paint the pipe and joints. The pipe will last for ever that way.

T_Bone

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paul

11-23-2001 12:11:23




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 Re: Re: pipe tape/dope in reply to T_Bone, 11-23-2001 08:22:46  
It's not technically burried pipe, as it's in the pit, but it does sit in water for some parts of the year. So, that sounds like good advise. Hope I use all the good advise I'm getting soon, bad weather/ cold coming in real soon, & I have gravel I need to spread be4 getting back to the pit....

I really like the part about the dope/tape helping get things apart 10 years from now - it was a bear trying to get one elbow loose down there in the bottom of a 3 foot hole with no room for leverage! :)

Thanks again all, & hope I didn't start a plastic air line feud again! We use a lot of black plastic for underground water runs, but not much of any plastic in the buildings. Can you glue up a plastic pipe in zero degree weather, that is a major thing stopping me from using it around the farm outdoors? Things always break for me under the worst conditions - funny how that is! Also does your type of plastic take freezing water in them? In another application the metal lines by the barn often freeze up, only have a valve that gives out every couple of years, the pipe itself seems to stand the constant freezing. I'm told it shouldn't, but for me it does...

--->Paul

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T_Bone

11-23-2001 16:29:19




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 Re: Re: Re: pipe tape/dope in reply to paul, 11-23-2001 12:11:23  
Hi Paul,

I should have added that the easiest way to spread roof mastic is with a elbow length rubber glove, then toss the glove when done.

Another plus of metal pipe is when it does freeze a you can thaw out the pipe faster with more heat than PVC can take.

There again I'm a metal man and not a plastic lover.

T_Bone



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bbott

11-23-2001 08:16:55




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 Re: pipe tape/dope in reply to paul, 11-22-2001 18:05:29  
Interesting comments here..

The main reason I use thread compounds is not so much for preventing leakage, (comment about proper threads comes in here) but so I (or somebody else) can get it apart 10 years from now without excessive cussing !

Teflon tape is fine if your fingers are nimble, it's not cold and you're coordinated enough to do the wrap properly. Otherwise I use what's now sold as 'pipe dope'.

Both will work just fine if used properly.

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ROD

11-23-2001 07:24:00




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 Re: pipe tape/dope in reply to paul, 11-22-2001 18:05:29  
KURT, I HATE TO DISAGREE WITH YOU ABOUT THE PVC PIPE, BUT YOU ARE WRONG. IF YOU USE THE CORRECT SCHEDULE FOR THE RIGHT PRESSURE AND THE LINE IS NOT UNDER ANY STRESS OR TRAUMA IT WILL NOT BUST, SPLIT, OR EXPLODE. IF IT IS USED ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE SHOP AND EXPOSED TO SUNLIGHT, THEN IT MUST BE UV INHIBITED WITH TIO2 OR TITANIAM DIOXIDE. I KNOW YOU MAY FIND THIS HARD TO BELIEVE, BUT THERE IS NOTHING IN THE OSHA REGULATIONS ABOUT NOT USING PVC PIPING FOR ANYTHING, IF THE PRESSURE SPECIFICATIONS MATCH THE TASK. I'VE CHECKED THE REGULATIONS MYSELF. THE AVERAGE TANK PRESSURE ON MOST SHOP COMPRESSORS IS 150 PSI AND SCD 40 PVC PIPE IS RATED AT OVER 300 PSI. PRESSURE IS PRESSURE WHETHER IT IS WATER OR AIR. ALL JOINTS MUST BE CLEANED AND PROPERLY GLUED (PREFERABLY WHEN IT IS WARM) AND ALLOWED TO CURE. WE MUST NOT CONTINUE TO PROPAGATE WIVES TALES, INUENDOES, AND HALF TRUTHS, ESPECIALLY WHEN RELATING STORIES FROM OTHERS WHICH AT BEST ARE PURELY SUBJECTIVE. HOPE THIS HELPS.

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You Are Right!

11-23-2001 08:14:12




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 Re: Re: pipe tape/dope in reply to ROD, 11-23-2001 07:24:00  
But please, don't shout



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ErnieD

11-23-2001 07:58:45




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 Re: Re: pipe tape/dope in reply to ROD, 11-23-2001 07:24:00  
There is cause for concern with plastic anything and air if there is lubricant carried downstream with the air. The oil will leach the plasticizer out of the plastic causing embrittlement. This will allow the plastic to fail at lower than rated pressure.



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ROD

11-23-2001 08:37:37




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 Re: Re: Re: pipe tape/dope in reply to ErnieD, 11-23-2001 07:58:45  
THE PVC PIPE IS IMPERVIOUS TO EVERYTHING ACCEPT ACETONE AND HEAT. WHAT PLACTICIZES PVC, IS HEAT IN THE EXTRUSION PROCESS, NOT OIL. PVC FORMULATIONS INCLUDE LUBRICANTS SUCH AS WAXES TO KEEP THE MOLECULES FROM MERGING TO SOON IN THE EXTRUSION PROCESS. ONCE THE PROCESS IS COMPLETE, THE PVC IS NOT POROUS ENOUGH TO ALLOW WHAT YOUR DISCRIBING. WE'VE HAD PVC PIPE WITH AIR RUNNING THROUGH IT FOR 20 YEARS WITH NO FAILIER. SORRY.

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LarryG

12-04-2001 04:51:26




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: pipe tape/dope in reply to ROD, 11-23-2001 08:37:37  
Rod, you are right about pressure being pressure, but there is a big difference between gas (air) and water when there is a failure. With water, if a failure occurs, it tends just to split the pipe and leak. With compressed gasses, there is a lot of potential energy just waiting to convert to kinetic energy through expansion, which tends to turn pieces of pipe into schrapnel. My vote would be for steel for air systems.

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KURT

11-23-2001 06:36:59




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 Re: pipe tape/dope in reply to paul, 11-22-2001 18:05:29  
I would use teflon dope on the water lines, but be sure that the dope is two threads up from the opening of the pipe. I would not use plastic pipe on water pressure lines because it can crack easily and then you have a horrible mess of water. And I also would not use plastic pipe for air pressure lines because if it ruptures under 90 psi shop air then the pipe blows up like glass shattering. Plastic pipe should only be used for drain lines in houses.

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Gordon in IN

11-23-2001 05:32:46




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 Re: pipe tape/dope in reply to paul, 11-22-2001 18:05:29  
I have had good results using "Silicone Caulking" (real - pure "silicone" - not a "Latex" mix). I like black color best as it is easiest to see. Clear works, but, is difficult to "see" if you applied uniformally. Be careful and not tighten the joint "too tight". It is so easy to tighten a joint with silicone calking that you can deform a coupling or fitting or split a brass valve. Your results may be different. Good luck, Gordon in IN

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Franz

11-22-2001 22:09:05




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 Re: pipe tape/dope in reply to paul, 11-22-2001 18:05:29  
A lot more years ago than I care to remember, we used to use oil based paint, then switched to Permatex, then Teflon tape, and now we're back to using good old Pipe Dope. The number of problems caused by teflon tape were more than enough to go back to dope, even without the influence of manufacturers who refused to honor warranties if Teflon Tape was used. Teflon is OK, if properly applied to a properly threaded joynt, but experience tells me it was rarely properly applied.
A bottle of good pipe dope costs about 4 bucks at Home Depot, and will last a lot of joynts when properly used. There is no compound that will make up for poorly cut threads although I see a lot of jobs where people think it will.

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Dave T

11-22-2001 19:29:55




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 Re: pipe tape/dope in reply to paul, 11-22-2001 18:05:29  
If you are using galvanized pipe, I'd recommend pipe dope. Permatex makes a great sealer. If I want to make sure a pipe plug won't leak, I'll actually use pipe dope in the inside threads, and place teflon tape on the plug. It never leaks.

Have you considered Schedule 40 plastic? I've ran plastic piping in my shop for air pressure, I have it regulated at 90 psi., an water is at 40 to 60 psi. It's cheap, and a heckuva lot easier to install. If you do have a split, it's very easy to cut out and repair.

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paul

11-23-2001 06:28:09




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 Re: Re: pipe tape/dope in reply to Dave T, 11-22-2001 19:29:55  
Thanks all. :)

This is actually some piping in a 7' deep pit for the water supply to the cattle here in Minnesota - replacing the leak-back valve & old pipe near it, 1 1/4" pipe & valve on a gravity feed system, so sealing isn't even that imortant with the low pressure.

Since this pipe supports the valve, my pressure on the handle turning off & on, and the vertical pipe to surface, I really prefer good old fashioned steel on it. :) Also if things freeze up or break, steel is easier for me to deal with on repairs in 20 below temps, or hot water/hot flame to thaw out.

Otherwise the plastic sounds good. I hear bad things about it for air tho.

--->Pauil

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Dave T

11-23-2001 07:27:21




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 Re: Re: Re: pipe tape/dope in reply to paul, 11-23-2001 06:28:09  
True, a lot of people are afraid to use it for air, but Schedule 40 is Schedule 40, not Schedule 80. This is rated the same as galvanized. I've done two commercial shops with it for air, and never had a problem. I worked at a couple of large companies in Minneapolis that used it for main. (2") pipe, down to 3/4 leads, again, no problems. It is a matter of personal preference. Because of the ease of installation, I'd certainly use it again....

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rhudson

11-22-2001 19:24:05




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 Re: pipe tape/dope in reply to paul, 11-22-2001 18:05:29  
Hello Paul,
Modern joint compound for threaded metal pipe is a lubricant only, to keep metal from gauling before it reaches proper tightness. both are teflon, dope has a grease carrier with teflon particles

tape: neat, cost more, must be applied in proper direction, can cause problems with some close fitting valves if it enters flow stream.

dope: messy, cheap,

there is a proper number of turns to tighten for each size of pipe (not too tight, not too loose) i'd have to look it up though.

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