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Discussion Forum

Rod MI about the AL wheels...

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Mark Kw

11-10-2001 12:20:00




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I know what you mean about the corrosion. This problem is common on more than just wheels, anywhere you have dissimilar metals, you end up with galvanic and or electrolysis corrosion. Al to Fe joints are the most prone to electrolysis corrosion. I have tried many products and home brews to prevent this but only a few have been satisfactory over the years of trial and error.

The best I have found so far is a product that can be found in any industrial/commercial electrical supply house. The particular one I have now is branded under the "Hubbell" name. Full designation is "Hubbell Power Systems Versa-Seal VS-8B electrical joint compound". This is listed for use on electrical joints of Al-Al, Al-Cu, and Cu-Cu. It is basically an electrically conductive compound that also functions as a water repellent, anti-sieze and anti-corrosion compound.

I have used this between wheels and drums, Al tools boxes and steel frames, ect. The surfaces must be completely clean and free of any previous corrosion, oil, dirt, ect. Apply a thin layer to both sides of the joint and assemble. This product is yellow in color. There is another common one with similar properties called Noallux or something to that effect sold under the Ideal brand name. This is gray in color and has a much lighter body to it. It does not work as well as the Hubbell brand one as it is more prone to run out and drip off especially when temps get above 80F. The Hubbell does maintain well even on semi-truck wheel applications.

Petroleum oils and greases are normally non-conductive of electric current and can actually cause more corrosion between dissimilar metals such as Al-Fe joints. It also works well if used on ground wire/cable connections to the frame and or engine block. Works equally well on battery terminals but you must use a very very light coating to prevent any run-off, it is conductive and if contact is made between battery terminals or positive and vehicle frame, the battery will short out and drain. Do not use it on light connectors or such because it will also short them out. Another good place to use this product is when you install Aluminum or stainless steel fasteners through or into any Fe alloy.

For light plugs/lamp holders, you can get a special electrical grease at most auto parts stores that is non-conductive and will not hurt the rubber/plastic light housings and or wire insulation. This is usually a light brown (dark beer color) and semi-transparent.

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Rod MI

11-10-2001 21:06:53




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 Re: Rod MI about the AL wheels... in reply to Mark Kw, 11-10-2001 12:20:00  
Mark thanks I will have to try this on my brothers Al wheels I think I'm going to have to junk mine thanks Rod MI



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Mark Kw

11-11-2001 10:45:28




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 Re: Re: Rod MI about the AL wheels... in reply to Rod MI, 11-10-2001 21:06:53  
If they are corroded bad, I would not take a chance running on them. Last thing you want to do is loose a wheel while going down the road. Al is critical on thickness and alloy to maintain it's strength. Loosing thickness and tensile strength from corrosion is not uncommon with Al products. Dissimilar metals corrosion and electrolysis corrosion was the major downfall of the first series of F/A-18 jets the US Navy purchased. Three years and the entire plane had to be completely taken apart and repaired.

BTW, some people will tell you that placing a piece of rubber between steel and Al will stop the corrosion... tried it, don't work either. Even using this compound, you will still get some corrosion but it has been the longest lasting and most effective thing I have found to limit it.

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Rod MI

11-11-2001 16:20:21




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 Re: Re: Re: Rod MI about the AL wheels... in reply to Mark Kw, 11-11-2001 10:45:28  
Mark I just cant under stand why people pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for AL wheels when they only last for about 10 years where I live my brother included? My wheels are a safety hazard and have to be replaced soon Rod MI



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John F

11-11-2001 16:52:01




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Rod MI about the AL wheels... in reply to Rod MI, 11-11-2001 16:20:21  
I think I can answer this one. Some people buy aluminium wheels for looks, others for the reduction in weight. A 20lb aluminium wheel versus a 60lb steel wheel, 40lb difference, multiply that by 18 and you save over 700lbs on the tare weight of the truck which will allow a truck to legally carry an extra 720lbs and not be overweight. By the way, steel wheels can go bad too. They have a tendency to rust around the bead seat which can spread into the bead of the tire and cause the tire bead to weaken from rust and cause tire failure. Both have their good points and bad points. Over all I prefer steel.

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Brian G. NY

11-11-2001 18:52:34




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rod MI about the AL wheels... in reply to John F, 11-11-2001 16:52:01  
I prefer steel as well; especially after seeing the corrosoion at the bead of the Al alloy wheels on my wife's Explorer. However, there is another distinct advantage to the lighter Al wheels other than overall weight reduction; that is the reduction of "unsprung weight". Any suspension components (including wheels and tires) between the road and the springs is unsprung weight and (if excessive) adversely affects riding and handling. The greater the unsprung weight, the more difficult it is for the springs to push the tire and wheel down onto the road surface. The lighter the vehicle, the more important this becomes. Heavy wheel assemblies cause a condition akin to the "tail wagging the dog". The IRS of the Corvette reduced unsprung weight by attaching the differential and brakes to the chassis and thereby making them sprung weight.

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Mark Kw

11-12-2001 12:02:20




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rod MI about the AL wheels... in reply to Brian G. NY, 11-11-2001 18:52:34  
John and Brian bring up some very good points about this topic. Al wheels can help reduce both sprung weight and also the GVW but can be somewhat of a concern for other reasons.

Steel wheels can split around the lug holes from over tightening just like Al ones can. Most steel wheels have one or more weld joints that can also crack however it is rare. Both have corosion problems but steel is usually the worst for bead corrosion. Al wheels can get bead corrosion but it is less likely than with steel. Most bead corrosion problems on any wheels are caused by tires that do not conform properly to the wheel itself and allow water, salt, ect to get between the tire and rim.

Al wheels subjected to rough roads and off road use will usually have a higher failure rate than steel wheels subjected to the same type of abuse. The type of alloy used in the wheel is also a major concern as to the application of the wheel. The fancy type wheels used on SUV's and such are not actually designed for anything much more than looks and open smooth highway running. The Al wheels used on semi-trucks and trailers are quite different animals. These usually have a heavy duty construction that is designed to take the constant pounding of heavy loads and not so smooth roads. They do however have a limit to what they will take. Using these in such applications as mining and other off-road and corrosive duty is not acceptable. These environments are hard enough on steel wheels and seriously reduce the life span of the wheel itself. Fancy wheels are generally made from harder alloys so they can be made thinner and lighter. With Al this is a trade off between long life and durability. The harder the alloy, the more prone it is to sustain stress cracks and the softer the alloy, the more vibration and impact it will absorb without stress damage. A soft alloy will give and flex while a hard alloy will not, it'll crack first. The same story held true for dump bodies being made some years ago pushing the use of a steel alloy known as "T-1". It did not wear or dent as did the standard A-36 alloy but in a short time they were reduced to scrap because of stress cracks. Every box I have seen made from T-1 looked like an egg shell that was stepped on while the plain old A-36 steel bodies were dented up and worn down but still in relatively good shape. Same with Al dump bodies. Those that were welded with 5356 alloy wire usually suffer a high number of failed welds while those welded with the softer 4043 alloy wire did not. All the repairs I do on Al bodies are done with the 4043 and those areas prone to abrasion wear are capped with 5356 that does not touch both sides of the weldment at the same time, if it does, a crack will start and run the weld seam.

Those Al rims used on motor homes and medium duty trucks are usually much lighter duty than those used on semi-trucks. These are used primarily to look good and a small secondary fuction is to reduce weight. These rims can last a good number of years but they must have proper installation and upkeep to maintain their structural integrity.

Another problem is expansion and contraction. As wheels heat up from running and using brakes, they expand. They more they expand, the more dirt and crud that is allowed to enter into areas such as around the bead and also into the grain of the alloy itself. Expansion also increases the pressure between the lugs and the rim. The Al wheel expands much faster than the steel or cast iron brake drums and hubs. This constant movement between the rim and hub also causes stress to be induced into the wheel. The better the heat transfer from wheel to hub, the less expansion differential is seen between the dissimilar metals. Adding the anti-corrosion compound does help transfer heat better between the wheel and hub, while it is not a perfect medium, it does help more than nothing. Corrosion acts as a heat insulator and causes more problems than just the loss of structural integrity.

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Rod MI

11-12-2001 22:43:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rod MI about the AL wheels... in reply to Mark Kw, 11-12-2001 12:02:20  
Thanks every one for the posts they all where very good points and sum that I haven�t thought about thanks Rod MI



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