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Lathe motor question

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Mike

11-08-2001 17:06:30

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I just purchased a Logan metal cutting lathe with a 3/4 hp 3 phase motor and was trying to decide whether to build a rotary phase converter or to change the motor to a single phase motor. If I purchase a new 3/4 hp 115 or 230v single phase capacitor start motor can it be wired so that the reversing switch on the lath works correctly ( motor would need to operate in both directions)? I know with a three phase motor reversing is accomplished by switching two of the incoming voltage legs. Is there any other advantage of staying with the three phase motor?

Thanks in advance,

Mike

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PJW

11-15-2001 19:10:47

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Re: lathe motor question in reply to Mike, 11-08-2001 17:06:30

Looks like you got lots of advise on going with a phase converter. As I understand the question you have a 3/4 hp, 3 phase motor on your lathe. It also sounds like this is a machine you will be using in your home shop. My advise Dump the 3 phase and buy a 220 single phase motor. Check around and you can replace the motor with a 1hp 220, single phase motor that can be reversible for around one hundred dollars. I did this for my mill and lathe. Both machines are now set up with using a 2hp, 220, single phase motor with reversing switch (new) that cost under $150.00 and I have had no problems with either machine. Plenty of power, no vibration , and no performance change from original configuration. In my opinion the phase converters are more trouble than the worth. Also consider this, a good converter will cost over $500.00 the cheaper ones are a mistake.

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G Taylor .yes,no and maybe

11-10-2001 15:49:10

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Re: lathe motor question in reply to Mike, 11-08-2001 17:06:30

Depends on your future plans. In the name of simplicity for a single phase capacitor start-capacitor run motor is simplest up to 10HP. Always use 240v on every single phase load if at all possible. It just saves alot of problems. Balance the 120v loads on both sides of the panel as well. Just swap start winding polarity with the drum switch or us an ordinary home lighting four way switch for the single phase rotation change. The wave form from three phase converters varies from distorted to worse. However for modestly loaded motors it's acceptable. A 100amp 240v single phase service at most can supply a 20HP three phase load using a converter, but that's really stretching and power factor correction capacitors will be required.No other significant loads either.

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MarkB

11-10-2001 05:24:57

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Re: lathe motor question in reply to Mike, 11-08-2001 17:06:30

The main reason that most industrial machines have three phase motors is to reduce vibration. All single phase motors vibrate at 120 cycles per second, because the line power drops to zero twice per cycle. (And in North America, the line frequency is 60 cycles per second.) With three phase, each phase is shifted 120 degrees from the other two phases. This way, the power applied to the motor is almost constant throughout the cycle.

This is why you don't see any really big single phase motors, they would vibrate themselves to death.

Another advantage of three phase motors is that they don't require any starting circuits, which is the case with most large single phase motors. So you don't have any capacitors, switches, etc.

Of course, if you don't have three phase power, you'll need a convertor, which negates these advantages. On the other hand, once you have a convertor, you can power any new machines you buy, instead of buying a new single phase motor for each.

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Chicken george

11-09-2001 20:24:25

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Re: lathe motor question in reply to Mike, 11-08-2001 17:06:30

Try this website and do a search on phase converters it is a machinery website and if you like machinery it is great //www.chaski.com/cgi-bin/machine_index.cgi

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C.G.(MO)

11-09-2001 19:53:45

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Re: lathe motor question in reply to Mike, 11-08-2001 17:06:30

Mike, I have a Logan lathe with a 1 hp 3 phase motor.I went with a rotary phase converter. They aren't too awful hard to build. The advantage is 3 phase pulls less amps than 1 phase so you aren't having to run as heavy a gauge wire as 1 phase. Not only that , if you have a 3 phase converter that's big enough (5hp or 7hp....) you can run multiple machines at the same time as long as they are in the limits of your converter. I have in my shop a lathe , horiz. mill , vertical mill , punch press , drill press and they are all 3 phase and are running off of that one rotary converter. Finally, the best advantage of three phase over single phase is machinery is realativily cheap compared to single phase because not everybody has 3 phase nor do they want to fool with it. I have seen machine shops and farm repair shops that have 3 phase equipment go out of business and the equipment goes cheap because the farmers in the community dont have 3 phase. For example : I've been to auctions where single phase 250 amp wire feed welders go for $800-$900. Those same welders in 3phase , I've seen bring $250-$350. WHY? Because nobody has 3 phase. Also, people have come to me and have given me good 1hp-5hp 3 phase motors because they have no use for them because they have single phase. Lots of Luck with your lathe . By the way, you still can order parts for your lathe through Logan Actuator. Scott

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Big Mike

11-09-2001 14:01:19

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Re: lathe motor question in reply to Mike, 11-08-2001 17:06:30

Here is a schematic for a self starting rotory phase convertor. The one we built was a simpler one but you need to get it spinning before you throw the power to it so we used a pull rope on the idler motor...Make shure you dont overspeed the old lathe if you put a new single phase motor on it.Use one close to the same speed or adjust with different pulleys

phase convertor schematic

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Lance

11-09-2001 08:48:17

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Re: lathe motor question in reply to Mike, 11-08-2001 17:06:30

A rotory phase converter is easy to make and considering you only need to power a 3/4 hp motor it wouldn't have to be a large one. You can often find used 3 phase motors for scrap prices that can be used as the converter.

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Bob M

11-09-2001 06:01:05

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Re: lathe motor question in reply to Mike, 11-08-2001 17:06:30

Mike - I wound up converting my ancient South Bend lathe to single phase. I fooled with a static phase converter but found it unacceptable due to complexity and motor heating problems. And a rotary converter was just too expensive.

So I swapped a buddy an old lawnmower for a used 3/4 HP capacitor start single phase motor. The motor was easily wired up for reversing operation - was even able to use the lathe's existing drum (reversing) switch. The lathe now works like a charm!

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T_Bone

11-08-2001 21:39:02

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Re: lathe motor question in reply to Mike, 11-08-2001 17:06:30

Hi Mike,

You might want to do some reading on what capacitiors do with 3-phase wave forms, then compare that info to cap/start cap/run single phase motors. That will surprise what you'll find out.

You will also read about how to reverse cap/start single phase motors.

T_Bone

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farmboy

11-09-2001 10:42:20

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Re: Re: lathe motor question in reply to T_Bone, 11-08-2001 21:39:02

T-bone, where do I read about 3 phase electrical. Always considered myself pretty savvy to most electrical stuff but haven't ever had a chance to learn about 3 phase. In particular the converter mentioned.
Thanks

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T_Bone

11-09-2001 23:57:52

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Re: Re: Re: lathe motor question in reply to farmboy, 11-09-2001 10:42:20

Hi farmboy,

Probably the best "one" book would be the Amateur Radio Relay League hand book.
It explains electrical theory very well as well explains wave forms and how to change them.

Another good book about controls, control circuits, electricity, etc, Modern Refrigeration by Goodheart & Wilcox

Although there's many other books on the subject, these two are easy to follow and learn from and under $100 for the pair.

T_Bone

ARRL Website

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