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How dangerous is an impact wrench?

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George H

11-08-2001 04:53:54




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I am buying an IR 2131 impact wrench to take off and tighten Alcoa 22 1/2 aluminum wheels on my motorhome. Wheel torque is 450 + or - 50 pounds. Specs for wrench are 450 forward and 600 in reverse. I thought I had it made until I realized that some of the Budd lug nuts are probably reverse threads. Does anyone know if an air pressure regulator can be used to adjust the torque? Would 70 pounds reduce the 600 to 450? Would 120 raise the 450 to 600? I am trying to avoid buying and using a torque wrench, but sure don't want to destroy a wheel. Thanks..George

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Nolan

11-13-2001 12:07:09




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 Re: How dangerous is an impact wrench? in reply to George H, 11-08-2001 04:53:54  
If an impact wrench (or other pneumatic wrench for that matter) were at all close to accurate on torque, jet engine people would be using them. Nothing has the number of fasteners that a jet engine has!

But since those wrenches aren't accurate, we still have to put them together with hand torque wrenches.

Can you "get away" with using an impact wrench on lug nuts? Lots of folks do. Doesn't make it a good practice though.

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Matt Clark

11-12-2001 10:32:13




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 Re: How dangerous is an impact wrench? in reply to George H, 11-08-2001 04:53:54  
I've seen too many cases of wheel-offs or rim failures due to improper lug tightening to ever believe anyone can know a lug is properly tightened by "ear". You'll never convince anyone in my department of that, because we're in the legal division of our company and whenever a franchised dealer experiences either of these, we get sued, right along with them. Worn out air guns, uncalibrated or even lack of torque specifications causes property damage in the hundreds of thousands each year, not to mention the many fatalities we have seen.

Let the pros do it, if for no other reason than then it's their baby when something fails. Then, when the lawyers have their techs on the stand, let them convince the plaintiffs attorneys that they have calibrated ears...

You're playing with fire. Just my 2 cents worth.

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John in MA

11-10-2001 22:36:46




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 Re: How dangerous is an impact wrench? in reply to George H, 11-08-2001 04:53:54  
I was at the local dump a few weeks ago when a guy walked up to the scrap metal bin with a transmission housing in his hands. We started talking and I find out that the housing is off a 1999 Suburban. It's also made out of 91% magnesium, so decided to take it home to play with.

Anyway, want to know why he's dumping it? Turns out that Jiffy Lube used an impact wrench to tighten the fill plug on it--cracks all over the place, chewed up threads, rounded over plug head. The kicker for me was that "DO NOT USE IMPACT WRENCHES" in huge letters was cast into the side of the housing! The good part was that they apparently paid for the replacement, but still...

Another reason I do my own work.

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RayP(MI)

11-10-2001 20:00:17




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 Re: How dangerous is an impact wrench? in reply to George H, 11-08-2001 04:53:54  
A few years back, at a Goodyear store, the "mechanic" started nailing the wheels back on the family station wagon with a 3/4 in air wrench. I walked around back, and handed him the little lug wrench from the car's tool kit, and asked him to show me how my 98 pound daughter was going to get the tire off on some deserted country road in a storm. He couldn't do it! Made him put all the wheels on by hand. He was mad, but not as mad as I was. My new tire dealer has his wrenches set below torque requirements, and finishes all installs by hand with a regularly calibrated torque wrench. I now have my own torque wrench for the times I have to remove a wheel. As far as aluminum wheels, the steel lugs will freeze on. I use white lithium grease on all lugs, as well as the surfaces where the nuts contact the wheels, to reduce or prevent this. It may change torque readings a bit, but a rusted fast lug nut is a far worse catastrophy.

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Charles Norwood

11-09-2001 18:20:57




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 Re: How dangerous is an impact wrench? in reply to George H, 11-08-2001 04:53:54  
One problem I have not seen mentioned so far are the minimum wage people operating the impact wrenches in some high volume tire shops -- How do I know they have their wrenches adjusted properly? I cringe when I see them used on aluminum wheels. So far I've been lucky, but I always check with my torque wrench when I get home. Usually they seem pretty close. But, I always loosen and retighten to the correct specifications. May not do any good if the aluminum is already squished.

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bcPA

11-09-2001 08:19:07




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 Re: How dangerous is an impact wrench? in reply to George H, 11-08-2001 04:53:54  
I always liked a hand powered gear wrench for taking rear budd lugs off. The inner part of the wrench locks on to the square shaft of the inner lug and the gear mechanism works against it to loosen the outer lug nut. This way you dont have the inner lug come loose and have the two wheels come off as one unit. I know they sell torque sticks that go between the air gun and the socket. I dont know if they are avaiabale in the high pound rating you would need. They are not cheep either. It should go without saying Make sure to start the nuts by hand far enough on to the threads so you are absolutely sure they are not cross threaded, in other words enough so you could bet you life that you did it right, because in effect that is what you are doing. D O T will shut you down for missing lugs or rust streaks coming from under the lug nuts. I once ran my mack 25 miles home to fix a problem with the front lugs. Four of the lugs studs on the front wheel were missing. The other six kept loosing up on the way home. I stopped every 5 or 6 miles and retightened them up. I was supprized the first time I stopped to check them and they were loosening up. Each other time I stopped they were getting loose again. I would check with the manufacturer of the wheels and or the rear and ft axle and or the vehicle to see what they recommend in the line of lubricant on the threads. I have heard a few stories about wheels coming off when lubricant was used. Also when lubed the amount of torque is changed. IE whatever your torque wrench reads is no longer accurate. GOOD LUCK

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mdm

11-09-2001 06:52:50




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 Re: How dangerous is an impact wrench? in reply to George H, 11-08-2001 04:53:54  
Are they dangerous? I'd say they are very dangerous in the wrong hands.

Three years ago, my wife had new tires put on her truck. Several months later, I did the rear brakes and found 3 nuts on one side and 2 on the other side had been cross threaded when they were put back on. To get the wheels off, I ended up breaking the 5 studs. The owner of the tire shop blew it off, saying that he didn't think he had caused the problem.

About a year ago I had work done on my F250, at a different shop. The ever present impact wrench was used to remove and replace the lug nuts. When one of the rear nuts bottomed out against the rim, the operator (sure can't call him a mechanic) kept going and spun the nut on the stud. Something had to give and it was the threads on the stud. Several weeks later, I was on the side of the highway at night, in the rain, with a flat. It took quite an effort to remove that nut. The shop manager did make good on replacing the lug, but it was still me that was in the rain having to deal with the problem.

These are only two incidents of many that I have been involved in either directly or indirectly over the years.

Impact wrenches are good tools if used properly. But in the hands of an operator that is inexperienced, in a hurry, or just plain careless they are very dangerous. There is great potential for causing damage and injury.

mdm

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tim brisson

11-08-2001 18:59:18




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 Re: How dangerous is an impact wrench? in reply to George H, 11-08-2001 04:53:54  
as far as 450 lbs tightening and 600 lbs looseing ft/lbs torque is concerned the wrench doesnt know if you are operating it on left or right hand threads.the people who say it takes experience to feel what the wrench is doing are correct ,but if you dont try it you will never get the experience, tighten it a little at a time and then check it with a torque wrench.As far as aluminum wheels go dont be afraid use the proceedure above (a little at a time)I,ve worked on cars and tractors and industrial equiptment for 24 years and once you get a little experience with your air gun you can tighten anything within 20ft/lbs REMEMBER ITS NOT THE IMPACT WRENCH THAT IS IN CONTROL THE PERSON USING IT IS .TIM

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Tyler(WA)

11-08-2001 08:17:39




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 Re: How dangerous is an impact wrench? in reply to George H, 11-08-2001 04:53:54  
Mark has good points. I was once a bus mechanic and we always used 3/4 or 1" drive impact tools for bus wheels. That was for everyday however.

You aren't going to be doing a lot of wheel work on your own motorhome and that IR-2131 is about the best tool in it's class. I have one and love it but it doesn't quite make it when pulling my motorhome wheels.

I would suggest you bust the Budd nuts loose with a long bar and use the impact wrench to buzz them off and put back on. That will protect your Aluminum rims too.

If you do any other work and could use an impact wrench, the IR-2131 is as popular as the Stihl, Farm Boss, Chainsaw. I wouldn't know what to do without either of them.

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Mark Kw

11-08-2001 07:50:50




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 Re: How dangerous is an impact wrench? in reply to George H, 11-08-2001 04:53:54  
First off, the 2131 is a 1/2" drive gun and you are not going to get a budd wheel socket (1.5" x 13/16") in 1/2" drive which means you'll need an adapter. The adapter is going to cause a torque loss and quite likely you will not be able to even get the lugs off at all with this gun or any other 1/2" drive for that matter.

Most tire/mechanic shops, myself included, use 1" drive 1200+ ft/lb guns for 19.5" and larger wheels. Care must be taken with AL wheels because you can damage the wheels themselves relatively easily. If anti-sieze compound was not applied to the lugs, you could run into frozen ones that are going to be a %$#@*& to remove. Unlike steel wheels, heating lugs on AL wheels with a torch is risky business and more often than not ends in the destruction of the wheel. Steel nuts and AL wheel just don't like each other especially when water and road salt are added.

You must also protect the wheel from damage caused by the socket. There are backer pads made from various plastics that fit over the lugs and allow the socket to rid on the plastic rather than the wheel. Special inner nuts with an allignment shoulder are used on AL budds. Care must also be taken that you don't damage the wheel from excessive torque when putting both inner and outer nuts on.

In all honesty, I have never once used a torque wrench on wheels of any type. There is a feel to the gun that one gets to know when the nuts are tight enough and not too tight. I know people like doing things themselves but when you factor in all the variables of AL budd wheels and add in the cost of you possibly damaging one, you're better off having a good tire shop do it. That way, if they damage the wheel, they pay for it, not you. They also will have the proper tools and experience to do a proper installation as well as removing the liability from you should something go wrong. AL wheels are ugle animals that require a good working knowledge of what to look for, how to take action on it and so on. This is one area where I have no choice but to say, "let the pro's handle it".

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Rod MI

11-09-2001 23:16:30




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 Re: Re: How dangerous is an impact wrench? in reply to Mark Kw, 11-08-2001 07:50:50  
Mark I just have a question that you mite be able to help answer I have aluminum wheels on my pickup and on the back side where they mount they are corroding very bad (electrolyses) and I put LPS 3 on the wheels thinking they would help stop the corrosion but the corrosion whose worse then I thought and the white powdery stuff (corrosion) made the corrosion fall of sow now I have a uneven surface and the tires wobble and vibrate is there any thing I can do to help this problem and what can I do to prevent this on new aluminum wheels next time and what about LPS 3 would that work ok At this point I think you would be better of buying Steel wheels and save your money thanks Rod MI

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Mike

11-08-2001 09:11:11




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 Re: Re: How dangerous is an impact wrench? in reply to Mark Kw, 11-08-2001 07:50:50  
ditto and me too! I like to think I know a thing about tractor/ truck tires. But I won't touch the aluminum rims on my wifes grand cherokee, I hire it out. Personaly I wouldn't mess with em; an aluminum rim, 11r 24.5 is gonna run ya up around 450$ if you spoil one. best of luck to ya though, wichever directionn you go



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paul

11-08-2001 11:47:32




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 Re: Re: Re: How dangerous is an impact wrench? in reply to Mike, 11-08-2001 09:11:11  
Haven't worked with air tools, but I sure wouldn't imagine it's rating is accurate enough to substitute for a torque wrench????? Just sounds like a bad idea to me - wreck the rims if you go too tight, wheel fall off if you don't go tight enough - now THERE is a liability headache.

--->Paul



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Mike

11-08-2001 12:50:25




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: How dangerous is an impact wrench? in reply to paul, 11-08-2001 11:47:32  
acctualy you do get a "feel" for a wrench by how it's working and how it sounds. I check my wrench every month or 2 w/ a tourque wrench and remain quite consistent. One obvious exception was when I got an IR 1" drive gun this summer. The first time I ran it I discovered why they put 2 handles on it- If you hold it w/ one hand( a task in it's self as wrench wieghs 50-60lbs) it will detach your arm from the shoulder... o well just call me lefty...

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GeorgeH

11-08-2001 15:26:20




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How dangerous is an impact wrench? in reply to Mike, 11-08-2001 12:50:25  
Don't believe for a minute that the average garage will get out a torque wrench for your aluminum wheels even when you beg them to write it on the order. Just got the gun in the mail today. Havn't tried it on a nut yet, but the feel and sound with just air is just as satisfying as stroking the polished metal on a new Snapon wrench. You are probably right that the wrench won't take off the wheels until I get them loose once and clean/antiseize the threads. The instructions say that the normal setting for the IR2131 is 50 pounds less than the maximum so the torque is probably close enough. In reality, I will probably never take the wheels off. But it really feels good to have the right tool along to fix a problem, especially when it's DARK outside...George

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John F

11-08-2001 18:03:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How dangerous is an impact wrench? in reply to GeorgeH, 11-08-2001 15:26:20  
Take it from someone who changes truck tires for a living, if you don't know what you're doing, you WILL get someone hurt, namely you. I use a Chicago Pneumatic 1" gun rated at 1200lbs at 90 psi. I run it at 200psi to bust lug nuts loose, mainly uni-mount and bud wheels. Dayton wheels don't need as much pressure but if you don't take them off properly, you could learn a very painful lesson. Bud wheels will loosen up as well as uni-mount wheels if you don't get them tight enough and believe me, the factory spec ain't close to what you need. I've replaced many studs and wheels from people who were in a hurry or just simply didn't put the wheels back on properly. Bud wheels are expecially important to go through all the steps. (I personally hate bud wheels) You must re-tighten the inner lug nuts even if you only take the outside wheel off. You can also bend a bud wheel if you take the outside lugnut off and it is rusted to the inner nut and it comes off with the outer nut. And remember, the left side of a truck with bud wheels has left-handed threads and the right side is right-handed. The left and right are determined by you sitting in the drivers seat. Drivers side is left side and passenger side is right side. Pay the money and get it done by someone that knows what they're doing.

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