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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

OT a little---FARM TRUCK

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lenray

05-13-2008 16:33:18




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Have this 1978 Paystar 5000 farm dump truck.
Have asked some questions concerning this truck in past posts.
This is a Fuller Road ranger 613 13 speed

In low range it has 1-2-3---put lever on shifter to intermediate and go to 4-5-6-7-8 then put lever on shifter to high range and get 9-10-11-12-13.
I am not very good at this shifting. Never drove a 13 speed.
Here is what I think I am doing----say in 5th. depress clutch part way shift into neutral and let out clutch---depress clutch again part way and shift into 6th let out clutch.
Sometimes I can't get into the next gear--grind the gear---HOW DO I continue to make headway up the shifting line once I have missed a gear?????

Also there are two oil pressure lines that run up to a tank under the hood from down below near the filters--seem to be high pressure hose small dia. one hose started leaking engine oil. What is the purpose of these two hoses????

Thanks for any help.

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Leland

05-15-2008 06:03:40




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 Re: OT a little---FARM TRUCK in reply to lenray, 05-13-2008 16:33:18  
It's all in the engine rpms once you learn when to pull it out and where to stick it bak in your problems will be over . usually you wind engine out the pop it in netural it should fall into the next higher gear around 12-1300 rpms . And down shifting let it drop to 11-1200 rpms sometimes to have to use the brakes to bring rpms down pop it out of gear rev the engine up and it should slip into the next lower gear . But as far as using the clutch to shift every gear hog wash I could leave St Louis and never use the clutch to shift for the next 700 miles . And I never had any trans or clutch problems either .

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guido

05-15-2008 05:36:29




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 Re: OT a little---FARM TRUCK in reply to lenray, 05-13-2008 16:33:18  
Hello lemray
The lines you describe go to the luberfiner , a bypass engine oil filter.
That should be changed at the time the crackase oil is chanded. The top has a cover with a band around it that looks like the band on a brake's air chamber. probably #6 aeroqwip hose.
Guido.



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lenray

05-15-2008 05:52:50




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 Re: OT a little---FARM TRUCK in reply to guido, 05-15-2008 05:36:29  
Thanks guys for all of the good info. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.
Got the insurance yesterday and getting ready to give it another good try.
Guido any tips on the clutch adjustment?????

len in michigan



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guido

05-15-2008 08:49:46




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 Re: OT a little---FARM TRUCK in reply to lenray, 05-15-2008 05:52:50  
Hello lenray.
First you set the cluch brake to 1/2 in.
The free pedal travel 1 to 1/2 in.
Release fork to clucth bearing 1/8 in.
If you need more info let me know.
Guido.



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Leland

05-15-2008 06:05:55




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 Re: OT a little---FARM TRUCK in reply to lenray, 05-15-2008 05:52:50  
Make sure you do not have a self adjusting clutch first before messing with it .



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trucker40

05-14-2008 21:03:27




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 Re: OT a little---FARM TRUCK in reply to lenray, 05-13-2008 16:33:18  
On You Tube there are some videos showing shifting both ways.13 speeds and even an old screaming Detroit with a 13 speed.Maybe those will help.



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Mike M

05-14-2008 10:10:17




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 Re: OT a little---FARM TRUCK in reply to lenray, 05-13-2008 16:33:18  
I drove a Mack awhile back and you only used the clutch to start out or stop the rest of the time you let off the throttle popped it out of gear then into the next then back on the throttle again. At the right RPM it goes in effortlessly. Others I rode with didn't use the clutch either. I also heard that today they will fail you on your CDL test if you don't use the clutch ? I worked at a truck dealership 10 years ago and I was surprised that they still had old technology of dry clutches and straight gear trannies. Farm tractors went to wet clutches and powershifts years ago and now CVT trannies.

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guido

05-14-2008 05:43:34




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 Re: OT a little---FARM TRUCK in reply to lenray, 05-13-2008 16:33:18  
Hello lenray
I see you are still trying to master that fuller tranny.
Have you adjusted the clutch properly?
That transmission needs to be double clutched because it has no synchronizers.
You need to do it this manner : clutch down shift into neutral, clutch down shift into the next gear. There are four steps as you can see.
Clutch down shift into neutral 1 second.
Clutch down shift into the next gear 1 second.
Does not matter if you are shifting up or down you do it the same way.
P. S. shifting without the clucth is not recommended by fuller trasmission.
That method of shifting keeps the main shaft in constant contact with the gears therefore preventing lubrication to reach in there. The gears and the key are lubricated while unloaded during the double clutching part of shifting.
The main shaft key that runs the lenght of the main shaft that without lubrication will eventually fail!
Guido.

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trucker40

05-14-2008 08:43:15




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 Re: OT a little---FARM TRUCK in reply to guido, 05-14-2008 05:43:34  
Back years ago they used to say that you had to double clutch,and it doesnt hurt to know how.Still you can slide the gears in all of those straight gear transmissions without double clutching.Double clutching is hard on clutches.I used to replace clutches in a fleet of trucks and the guys that double clutched wore out about a clutch a year,the ones that slipped the gears rarely wore out a clutch.It saves money,and its easier on the truck to slip the gears once you figure out how to do it.You might have to use the clutch now and then,especially like others said on the first 2 or 3 to shift smooth,but the way I do it is if it wont go in gear just push the clutch say a 1/3 of the way down for an instant as I try and put it in the gear I want it to go in and it relieves the pressure enough to go without all that double clutch nonsense.Just dont"ride"the clutch,or take a long time to push it or you will be starting over again.Put your foot on the clutch only when you are using it,take it off when you get done.In about 2 months of driving every day you can make it sound like an automatic.While double clutching will work,its not necessary after you learn how to slide gears.Figuring out for sure what transmission you have,if its a Fuller or Spicer,which is a heavy duty trans you might find in a dump truck,the pattern is like you said.If its a roadranger,it would be like I said,split the top 2.

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guido

05-14-2008 09:18:38




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 Re: OT a little---FARM TRUCK in reply to trucker40, 05-14-2008 08:43:15  
Hello trucker40.
If you are using the clutch while changing gears you are double clutching.
I/3 pedal travel will release the clutch enough to make the next gear selection. 1/3 of the clutch is enough to release it and all the clutch travel needed to make the next shift. What I meant was shifting with-out a clutch at all.
That would couse the wear I described on my last post. At work we had good drivers and the clutches usually outlasted the engines about 300.000 miles. A 6/13 fuller transmission has 3 very low ratio first three gears used for off road and trash pick up applications.You use the rest of the 10 gears like a 10 speed transmission 5 gears low....shift selector up... 5 gears high.
I should have the manual around here some where.
Have not done enough tranny work lately, to really go find it!
Guido.

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trucker40

05-14-2008 20:43:39




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 Re: OT a little---FARM TRUCK in reply to guido, 05-14-2008 09:18:38  
I thought maybe thats the way they worked.I have drove one of them a little,but not enough to know a lot about it.I have driven a 13speed Roadranger a lot.Most all the trucks I drove were big over the road ones.I have driven a 5 speed Mack and a Triplex Mack,and a Airshift 4 x4 but not much,and trucks like that deep reduction Fuller on a roadtest,but not every day.I have worn out a 10 speed and a 9 speed and a 13speed.I even have drove a 5 and 3 speed auxilary Chevy C65 a little.I can slip the gears in all of them.I even slipped the gears a few times when I was a kid in a car with a 4 speed.You just want to not grind them a lot and be ready to push the clutch if you need to.Timing is more of it than anything.I one time drove a truck a couple of days with the throwout bearing out of it.Had to park on exit ramps if I wanted to shut it off so I could roll it off the ramp to get it going in gear when I started it again.To stop I had to kick it out of gear or downshift,clutch wouldnt disengage.That right there will teach you how to slide the gears if you dont have a clutch.

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ericlb

05-14-2008 03:53:40




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 Re: OT a little---FARM TRUCK in reply to lenray, 05-13-2008 16:33:18  
what you need to do is float shift the gears , keep your foot off the clutch older heavy trucks transmissions arn't constant mesh trannys, put the truck in gear and build the rpm up to between 1900 and 2000,at the same time, pull the stick out of gear and slack off the throttle as you let the rpms drop to around 1500, position the stick in the gate for the next gear,use very light pressure, when the engine rpm matches the road speed of the truck for that next gear, it will drop right in, go up thru the lower gears the same way then pull the range select switch to direct while in 5th gear, shift to 6th, again when it all gets matched it will drop right in, run up the rpms, with the splitter switch in direct then move it to overdrive slack off the throttle and you'll feel the "bump" when it shifts the gear,some call this 6th over, some call it 7th, your call, after you run up the rpms, shift the stick as before, but after you get the stick in the next gear and before you mash the throttle , switch the splitter to direct, try this with the rig empty on a level road and shift around 1900, it will be a little easier, once youve masterd this, [ and it wont take very long] life will be easier, NOTE, one thing you must not do, never shift the splitter with the stick in nutural while moving,if you do, you must bring the rig to a stop with the brakes and start over, floating the gears works well but only if one end of the tranny or the other is in mesh, if you accidently do the above, you have in effect taken both ends of the tranny out of gear at the same time and you cannot "catch " the gears untill you stop, hope this helps, i drive a 13 speed all day everyday

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Bob M

05-13-2008 19:33:04




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 Re: OT a little---FARM TRUCK in reply to lenray, 05-13-2008 16:33:18  
The 13 speeds I've run (older farm trucks) are shifted like this:

- Lowest 5 gears with the button in "L" (low) and shifting the main thru gears 1 - 5.

- The remaining 8 gears are achieved by using the upper 4 gears on the main and "splitting" each main gear with the button.

----

Diagramatically the sequence looks like this
(gear # - main lever/button position):
1 - 1/L
2 - 2/L
3 - 3/L
4 - 4/L
5 - 5/L
6 - 2/D
7 - 2/O
8 - 3/D
9 - 3/O
10 - 4/D
11 - 4/O
12 - 5/D
13 - 5/O

----

As the others mention, the clutch is required usually only for the 2 or 3 lowest gears. Shifting the higher gears can be accomplished without benefit the clutch by "floating" the accelerator between gears. Tough to explain - but once mastered it's not hard to do!

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trucker40

05-13-2008 18:59:18




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 Re: OT a little---FARM TRUCK in reply to lenray, 05-13-2008 16:33:18  
The way I do it is like this,start out in whatever gear it will,wind it up,as I let off the gas pull it into the next gear,wind,let off,shift.Now it sounds like you have a deep reduction 13 speed.I think thats not a roadranger,could be wrong,havent seen lots of dump trucks but a few.Normally a Roadranger 13 speed has regular 10 speed pattern until the top 2 and you split those.Having seen a transmission like you are talking about,and you could very well have one,you still wind up,let off as you pull it into the next gear.If its a 13 speed,you have low low,that you use pulling out of a hard pull,maybe you can start in 2nd,then wind up,let off as you put it in 3rd until you get to 9th gear, at what would be 9th gear wind it up,let off,move button to high gear so you have it in 10th,then wind it up,let off,move stick,as you move the stick shift button back to intermediate,wind up,thats 11th,let off ,shift button to high thats 12th wind up,set cruise.Thats a 13 speed with low low.That way was splitting gears,there is a transmission you shift the way you describe,but double clutching,like you describe,is not necessary.You can slip the gears a lot quicker,and your clutch will last much longer.Your left leg will thank you for slipping the gears.

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John730D

05-13-2008 18:05:32




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 Re: OT a little---FARM TRUCK in reply to lenray, 05-13-2008 16:33:18  
I'm Lost. All 13 speeds I have ever used were 5 gears on the bottom, 8 speed on top--5+8=13.

Hard to explain, but I will try.
1=shift lever in 1 low-intermidiate-high in low
Shift through all five gears in low range=5 speeds on bottom.
Next shift to intermidiate then shift lever into 2nd gear position=6th speed.
next shift to high=7th speed.
Continue this pattern for shift lever positions 3 through 5. 4 gears in two ranges=8speeds on top.
Unless you are under an extremely heavy load or are underpowered, you can skip high range until you are in 5th shift lever position.

Email is open, or tntonline at hotmail dot com
E me and I can explain better over the phone.

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Ron Anderson

05-13-2008 17:15:48




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 Re: OT a little---FARM TRUCK in reply to lenray, 05-13-2008 16:33:18  
You should be able to bypass using the clutch after the first couple of shifts. You can start out in low range then after you get to lo 3 switch to intermediate and 1 then use the foot feed to help you shift with out using the clutch. just takes a little practice but hard to explain. I can do it in my sleep but to try to explain it is hard. If you could be around someone that will drive and you pay attention it looks easy and is once you get used to it. just find a quiet road and practice.

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