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AC generators and motors

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Wardner

05-07-2008 20:02:04

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Will the generator run the motor? The motor seems like it might be too large. Could the amp draw and hp of the motor be de-rated?

KW..... ...10
RPM..... ..3600
Volts..... 208
Phase..... 3
Amps,,,,, ,30 continuous

Frame..... ...256UR4
Duty..... ....30 minutes
Phase..... ...3
Start torque..150 ft lb
Run torque....30 ft lb
Form..... ....P
RPM..... .....3485
Volts..... ...220/440
Amps..... ....51/25.5
Special class A insulation

This is what the motor attaches to. It is a gate operator and can lift 80 tons. Unit weighs about 3 tons.

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Red Dave

05-08-2008 07:31:55

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Re: AC generators and motors in reply to Wardner, 05-07-2008 20:02:04

"Will the generator run the motor?"

No, I don't think so.

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buickanddeere

05-08-2008 05:53:09

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Re: AC generators and motors in reply to Wardner, 05-07-2008 20:02:04

Those motors are a custom 18HP units with high resistance rotors for higher starting torque. This comes at the expense of running efficiency and higher slip/poor speed regulation. Your alternator is about 13.4HP on a good day with a tail wind.
Electric drives are used some ships which require maneuvering or to be able to supply hotel loads or have space/vibration/noise concerns.
Electric drives are also used on locomotives and on some off road heavy equipment.
The application has to be both unique and large to be practical.

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Leland

05-08-2008 04:53:51

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Re: AC generators and motors in reply to Wardner, 05-07-2008 20:02:04

It could run it if you can use a transformer to step things around a little bit .But that generator is worth more to a collector than seeing you burn it up trying to mess with that idea . get rid of it and go buy an old military surplus 3 phase generator that will suit your needs .

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Wardner

05-08-2008 05:35:50

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Re: AC generators and motors in reply to Leland, 05-08-2008 04:53:51

I am a collector and I am aware of the value of Electralls. In fact I just recently bought an Electrall motor. I estimate it weighs twice that of the Limitorque motor. They are continuous duty farm motors. They were used on IH #55 balers and are rarer than the side mounted Electralls.

I have two military generators powered by four cylinder air cooled Continentals. I think their capacity is around 15 KW.

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Leland

05-08-2008 08:05:25

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Re: AC generators and motors in reply to Wardner, 05-08-2008 05:35:50

Good I hate to see things like that destroyed nice to be able to see someone care enough to preserve it .

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MarkB_MI

05-08-2008 03:12:29

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Re: AC generators and motors in reply to Wardner, 05-07-2008 20:02:04

Are you saying that this motor normally lifts an 80 ton gate and you're going to use it on a gate that weighs 3 tons? If that's the case, you might get away with it. A motor will draw whatever power it needs for its applied load, up until the point where it stalls. But like Gerald says, if you intend to use it on anything close to a full load, you'll never start the motor.

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Gerald J.

05-08-2008 07:43:44

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Re: AC generators and motors in reply to MarkB_MI, 05-08-2008 03:12:29

Starting current (e.g. locked rotor current) is NOT affected by the running load. Its only determined by the winding impedance and the supply voltage and will run 5 to 6 times running current for most motor designs. If this is a high impedance motor, the starting current may be only 3 or 4 times full load running current, but that's still 5 or 6 times the rated current from the generator which probably will only supply 1.5 time name plate current for such a load surge. And then only if the prime mover has sufficient torque to drive the generator.

Gerald J.

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Wardner

05-08-2008 05:25:57

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Re: AC generators and motors in reply to MarkB_MI, 05-08-2008 03:12:29

The gate weighs 14,000 lbs. It is 80" x 154" double sided cast iron. The eighty ton capacity is reserved to break ice in both directions and to seat the gate when closing.

This may sound like I have too much time on my hands but I was thinking of using the operators to provide propulsion to a tractor. Yes, I have two Electralls and the gearbox drives for both sides of the IH tractor. It would be a very slow tractor only suitable for pulling heavy loads. I assume the space shuttle truck has similar drives.

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Gerald J.

05-07-2008 20:56:05

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Re: AC generators and motors in reply to Wardner, 05-07-2008 20:02:04

That generator won't run that motor at load even if the motor was spun up to speed by another motor.

It for sure won't start the motor. A motor takes 5 to 6 times running current during starting. Your generator won't supply that which would be something like 250 to 300 amps if your generator had 240 volts instead of 208. At 208 the starting current will probably be a little smaller, but the full load current once running with be greater because of the low supply voltage if the mechanical load on the motor works the motor to full ratings. Running current at 208 would likely be about 60 amps, and your generator is rated at 30 amps. Generators tend to not have a lot of reserve for surges, nor the tractors driving them, and even if it could supply that 60 amp current for a while it would overheat and in time would burn the insulation off the windings. And since the generated voltage would be lower than 208, the motor current would be even higher.

Gerald J.

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Wardner

05-08-2008 05:09:46

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Re: AC generators and motors in reply to Gerald J., 05-07-2008 20:56:05

I thought there was some sort of "wave chopping" technology such as used in "soft starters" that might work for starting and continuous run.

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Gerald J.

05-08-2008 07:38:52

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Re: AC generators and motors in reply to Wardner, 05-08-2008 05:09:46

There is. The fanciest is called a variable speed drive. Or a variable frequency drive. Costs as much as a new motor, but solves many such problems and gives machinery lots more speed control just by turning a knob.

Trouble is the VFD, is not a high power factor load. It draws power from the power source only on the voltage peaks (rectifier to filter capacitor) and that is a most obnoxious load for a generator. There should be some high power factor VFD, but at a considerable premium in price.

Gerald J.

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