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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Planishing Hammer ...English Wheel

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Glenn F.

04-16-2008 23:52:19

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Can someone please give me a little information on these two tools. I know nothing about them. In a thread down the page a bit dr. sportster referred to his building an English Wheel. I was flipping through the latest Harbor Freight catalog and saw a Planishing Hammer and an English Wheel listed. What are they used for?

Thank you,
Glenn F.

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dr sportster

04-17-2008 15:05:34

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Re: Planishing Hammer ...English Wheel in reply to Glenn F., 04-16-2008 23:52:19

Hi Glenn,Basically it gets the hammer dents out of the workpiece.On the Ron Fornier dvd he starts with it loose about .070 more than tight.the metal sort of clunks through at first then you bring the wheels a bit closer and continue.It kills my hands and I wear welding gloves.It is powered by your arms only and you can kinda pinch a finger .Once you do that youll avoid it.According to Fournier you should not pinch the workpiece to stretch the metal.He does not use a Planishing hammer at all [in that dvd].However the first piece I did squeeze alot and found it to stretch because the piece got wider in the center.I bought a nylon hammer and shotbag from Eastwood.Im still experimenting .There is a website that rents how to videos but sorry I dont have the link.Fournier makes a teardrop shape and two others.Without any hammering it will still make a compound curve by rolling back and forth.The first piece I tried without hammering.If you want to not compound curve it you can only ust the flat roller.If you stretch too far there is no turning back as far as I can see.If you use a radius too tight it puts ridges in the work .those can be worked back out ok.I will try to post a picture and the three practice pieces I made.Fournier makes a motorcycle fender and he beats the heck out of the metal then wheels it all out.It is pleasing to feel it remove the hammer marks.There is a limit to how much you can go before you have to weld two pieces together.If he makes say a sprint car nose it would be a top then two sides all welded into one piece.Other tools that go with it are the planishing hammer[powered] and stretcher/shrinker[manual].I dont have these.If you want to I can lend you the Fournier dvd.Email me at [email protected] While I was making mine Harbor Freight came out with one for like 250 bucks.I saw it in the store and would have to weld one thing different but still not a bad unit.The one Ron Fournier uses looks real expensive.I had drawn a plan and as soon as I started I diverted from it alot and winged it a bit.One mistake is my anvils dont come out with just the quick release they take two spins on the crank with your foot to get clearance from the yoke it sits in.It should be just pull quick release and remove anvil.Once I got the larger Chinese anvils I had to lower the plate on the bottom for even more clearance.I jigged the whole thing up in versabar to keep alignment when welding because the two wheel centers have to be real closely aligned.The shaft should be acme or square thread not just threaded rod to put better pressure.Mine is left hand thread left over from an old lathe repair.I also had to add a rough edged piece to the foot wheel so your boot got traction because the knob on the handle faces down.I now this probably does not make sense without photos.My wife has a digital camera so ill try to show what Im talking about.Before I added somw bracing I had way too much flex because I gave it a large throat opening of maybe twice the Harbor freight version.Email if you want to check out the Fournier DVD.Major use is probably compound curve patch panel for auto restoration if not outright fabrication.I dont think you could make a car body without the planishing hammer and shrinkeretc.I want to rent a dvd where another guy makes a model A fender just to see,but he uses a planishing hammer also.Im kinda ignorant of the bikebuilder shows because I dont have cable.[sound of everyong laughing at my no cable]

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Ron in Nebr

04-18-2008 01:35:17

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Re: Planishing Hammer ...English Wheel in reply to dr sportster, 04-17-2008 15:05:34

doc sportster(and anyone else here), if you're not already familiar with it, you should check out a website called "Shop Floor Forum"(do a yahoo or google search to find it). It's full of anything to do with metal fabrication, from storebought to homebuilt tools to reworking vehicles to pretty much anything that can be built out of metal, machine tools, shop layout, etc. and more.

Be careful though, there's TONS of posts on there, and a guy can easily spend a whole day just reading through them and still not see it all.

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Ron in Nebr

04-18-2008 18:56:13

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Re: Planishing Hammer ...English Wheel in reply to Ron in Nebr, 04-18-2008 01:35:17

OOPS- went and checked, and in case anyone's haveing trouble finding the forum I referred to, the whole name is "Shop Floor Talk" not "shop floor forum". Gonna try to add a link on this post....enjoy!

Click Here

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dr sportster

04-19-2008 07:56:52

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Re: Planishing Hammer ...English Wheel in reply to Ron in Nebr, 04-18-2008 18:56:13

Thanks Ron.Put it in favorites.Good one.

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jose bagge

04-17-2008 17:05:41

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Re: Planishing Hammer ...English Wheel in reply to dr sportster, 04-17-2008 15:05:34

Harbour Freight always seems to produce something right about when i've finished making it from scratch- like the English Wheel with you.
I made a bead roller about 10 years ago, struggled with making the dies and finding the gears- and now you can get one at HF for about $90!
But- they still don't sell plywood forms for pounding out wheel tubs like Ron's book taught me!

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T_Bone

04-18-2008 00:20:56

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Re: Planishing Hammer ...English Wheel in reply to jose bagge, 04-17-2008 17:05:41

Hi Dr S,

What metal does when you hammer it is it work hardens the metal by tightening the grain structure. Then you use the english wheel to form the metal into the desired shape, the metal holds it's shape due to the hardness.

That method doesn't work well for some metals, gold & silver for example, and pretty much for any of the non-ferrous metals.

We use motor driven metal formers in the sheetmetal industry that works very well for cold forming metal. Here the machine runs the metal thru several rolls with each making a small bend/roll as the metal progress thru the dies. There are some very complex shapes that can be made in a 3ft section of rollers. In reality this machine is nothing more than a english wheel on steriods.

The same rules apply to cold forming of any type tho with the No1 rule being to NEVER bend a radius "less" than 8 times the existing metal thickness or the metal will fracture and crack. This number 8 is very important when cold working metal.

T_Bone

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TimV

04-17-2008 07:48:53

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Re: Planishing Hammer ...English Wheel in reply to Glenn F., 04-16-2008 23:52:19

Glenn: attached is a link for building your own English wheel.

Homemade English wheel

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jose bagge

04-17-2008 04:37:57

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Re: Planishing Hammer ...English Wheel in reply to Glenn F., 04-16-2008 23:52:19

Check out the HP Books ' Welding and MetalWorking' book - it's got a great section on using both of the tools you mentions. As I recall, the book is written by a guy named Ron Fornier (?) who is a true metal craftsman and who I believe was a fabricator for Jack Roush back in the day....

I made my own english wheel and use it mostly to iron out old "fat fenders".

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shawnspeed3

04-17-2008 10:53:18

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Re: Planishing Hammer ...English Wheel in reply to jose bagge, 04-17-2008 04:37:57

Wheels And hammers are used for forming sheetmetal , the metalmeet site tells it all....And I don't think Ron, (fornier) ever worked for Roush, The picture on his Book with the Turbo intake for the Zackspeed-Roush Mustangs was actually Fabbed By B. Herman on the metal meet site....look up his projects on the site you will be inpressed. I learned a-lot working as an apprentice under them both....Shawn

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Ken Crisman

04-17-2008 06:01:33

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Re: Planishing Hammer ...English Wheel in reply to jose bagge, 04-17-2008 04:37:57

Jose, could you please email me pics of your English wheel ? Also if you'd share with me the plans & measurements I'd greatly appreciate . I've never seen one up close to get measurements . Maybe I could make mine also since I enjoy making things . It helps keep my mind occupied from boredom . Thanks & God bless, Ken

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jose bagge

04-18-2008 04:52:59

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Re: Planishing Hammer ...English Wheel in reply to Ken Crisman, 04-17-2008 06:01:33

I'll get the daughter to shoot some pictures and send 'em out. The post above for the bench mounted unit has some great info too!

How 'bout a sheet metal brake? That was one of my first "home built" tools. Pretty easy project and SUPER useful!

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Ken Crisman

04-18-2008 07:44:06

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Re: Planishing Hammer ...English Wheel in reply to jose bagge, 04-18-2008 04:52:59

Jose , that would be great having plans for the break also . Ya haven't designed a shear yet aah ? Teehee ! I saw the pics on the reply list but didn't know how to save or print from that article . I'm really nieve when it comes to technology . But give me tools & I'm ok .My email is [email protected] . That way we can avoid having to go this way . If you wanta include your email address than we can talk easier . If you could maybe send me the pics that were in that reply , I could print em out .Thanks for keeping in touch Juse & God bless . Ken

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jose bagge

04-17-2008 04:37:50

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Re: Planishing Hammer ...English Wheel in reply to Glenn F., 04-16-2008 23:52:19

I made my own english wheel and use it mostly to iron out old "fat fenders".

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Chuck UR

04-17-2008 03:58:09

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Re: Planishing Hammer ...English Wheel in reply to Glenn F., 04-16-2008 23:52:19

Spend a little time here -

Link

Everything you ever wanted to know about shaping metal.

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circus

04-17-2008 03:01:14

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Re: Planishing Hammer ...English Wheel in reply to Glenn F., 04-16-2008 23:52:19

Basiclly you bash metal with a hammer and the wheel will spread it out.

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Ken Crisman

04-17-2008 01:23:54

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Re: Planishing Hammer ...English Wheel in reply to Glenn F., 04-16-2008 23:52:19

Do a search on ebay for anvils & you'll find many different items but theres English wheels listed also . I had just left the site before coming here . I may buy one of them myself because I'm disabled & enjoy fabricating things & making body repairs on my vehicle & tractors . I nee to form a few curved pieces to weld in place where rusted out sections are . I got a price on two small formed repair patches & heck I can buy an English wheel & do it myself for what the place wanted to charge me . The English wheel is used with an air hammer attached & having a foot control so that your hands are free to control your work . You can form metal parts with them . I've never seen one work but I think I could have some fun with it . But as with all tools , wear goggles & watch your finners . HTH ! God bless, Ken

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Fawteen

04-17-2008 01:06:37

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Re: Planishing Hammer ...English Wheel in reply to Glenn F., 04-16-2008 23:52:19

The English Wheel is used for stretching sheet metal into dished or concave forms. Saw Jesse making gas tank halves out of aluminum with one on TV.

I understand they're also really handy for mashing fingers...

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