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Found On Road Dead (in my garage)

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RobMD

04-01-2008 15:53:04

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I'm now faced with the replacement of an 80 dollar fuel line just because I couldn't get the damm gas fuel filter line off. One of the lines on my '97 350 came off perfectly with the appropriate tool, and the other refused to come off of it, no matter what I did with the frickin' thing. Yep, you guessed it, after an hour, i got out the vice grips and big screwdrivers while using the tool. So, it's sitting there in my garage right now awaiting a new fuel line.

The REAL fun begins when I attempt to disconnect a DIFFERENT frickin' end at the engine to replace the whole frickin' line.

Why the F couldn't they have went with hex compression fittings or the like?

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JML755

04-03-2008 06:15:38

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Re: Found On Road Dead (in my garage) in reply to RobMD, 04-01-2008 15:53:04

02XLT4X4,

Notice I said "part of the problem". I'm not suggesting that we go back to the t-square & board days. That's like saying we should get rid of computers and have all accounting done on paper ledgers by rooms of bookkeepers and calculators. I also said that 3D modeling is pretty fantastic. Our designers can whip out something in a fraction of the time that it used to take someone on a board. What I sometimes see missiing is the "thinkining" part of the process.

You're absolutely right about it being "only as good as the guy running it." I've got guys that will whip out a design on a tube, plot it and hand it over to manufacturing where everyone scratches their heads over it, trying to figure out how to build it.

This not only applies to cars/trucks. Most PC computers are fairly easy to work on, but I've seen machines from a name brand manufacturer that are knuckle busters to add memory to and require partial dis-assembly of the chassis to accomplish this simple task.

You are also right that designers DO have a lot of parameters/constraints to consider (cost, space, etc) but to the guy who's cussing and swearing to try and get a wrench on a bolt, or replace some impossible to get to part, that's of little comfort.

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dave guest

04-02-2008 19:45:16

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Re: Found On Road Dead (in my garage) in reply to RobMD, 04-01-2008 15:53:04

Guess you'll say I ain't real mechanic. I like rubber gas line. Short pieces, though. Oops, can't use that for fuel injection! Back to the old jalopies.

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dave guest

04-02-2008 19:44:13

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Re: Found On Road Dead (in my garage) in reply to RobMD, 04-01-2008 15:53:04

Guess you'll say I ain't real mechanic. I like rubber gas line. Short pieces, though.

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Mike in Ohio

04-02-2008 18:52:53

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Re: Found On Road Dead (in my garage) in reply to RobMD, 04-01-2008 15:53:04

I know what you mean it took an hour and a to change the battery in my 2000 chrysler concord. I just bought a 69 ford pickup so I could avoid that nonsense, everything as accessable and parts are still available and reasonably cheap. Good luck with your truck, Mike

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JML755

04-02-2008 11:58:05

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Re: Found On Road Dead (in my garage) in reply to RobMD, 04-01-2008 15:53:04

Finn Md,

I think part of the problem with new designs is that everything is done in 3D computer models. Pretty powerful and fantastic stuff. But, if the computer says it will fit and there is clearance to another part, then it's good to go. I recall a problem a few years ago on a new vehicle where the torquing of the engine dluring a right hand turn would cause a hose to get nicked by the fan blade or a pulley (can't recall which for sure). THAT didn't show up in a computer simulation, although the designer swore he had clearance. Plus with all the electronics and emissions stuff that is being crammed into the engine compartments these days, it takes a contortionist to do even the simplest jobs.

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02XLT4X4

04-02-2008 13:49:58

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Re: Found On Road Dead (in my garage) in reply to JML755, 04-02-2008 11:58:05

JML755 said: (quoted from post at 11:58:05 04/02/08) Finn Md,

I think part of the problem with new designs is that everything is done in 3D computer models. Pretty powerful and fantastic stuff. But, if the computer says it will fit and there is clearance to another part, then it's good to go. I recall a problem a few years ago on a new vehicle where the torquing of the engine dluring a right hand turn would cause a hose to get nicked by the fan blade or a pulley (can't recall which for sure). THAT didn't show up in a computer simulation, although the designer swore he had clearance. Plus with all the electronics and emissions stuff that is being crammed into the engine compartments these days, it takes a contortionist to do even the simplest jobs.

So drawing everything with a T-Square and a pencil in 2D is more accurate and effeciant? 3D is how they get it all to work as well as it does, and if they have it set right (they must not have had an accurate reading of how the engine would move around or something in your case) is far superior to anything you can do with a pencil. Of course like anything else (even more so with a pencil), it is only as good as the guy running it.

I have done 2D/3D with a pencil (in school), Autocad in 2D (Autocad in 3D is a joke) and Inventor 3D modeling, for complex R&D work a good 3D program with a competent operator will blow 2D anything away.

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Vern-MI

04-02-2008 11:50:53

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Re: Found On Road Dead (in my garage) in reply to RobMD, 04-01-2008 15:53:04

It would have been nice to have the filter installed in a more accessable area under the hood rather than down under in all the road debris.

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Finn Md

04-02-2008 08:44:23

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Re: Found On Road Dead (in my garage) in reply to RobMD, 04-01-2008 15:53:04

Rob:
I feel your pain. It sure makes us glad to work on our old tractors. Well, except for in my case this past weekend where replacing a simple and tiny 3-inch rubber hose on the thermostat bypass on the MF 165D turned out to be a real knuckle buster. My fellow MF buddies can relate. Even with older tractors I sometimes scratch my head and wonder what the design engineer was thinking - or maybe they had a twisted sense of humor.

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Nancy Howell

04-02-2008 06:46:29

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Re: Found On Road Dead (in my garage) in reply to RobMD, 04-01-2008 15:53:04

Forgot to mention this. O"Reilly Auto parts (don"t know if you have them where you are) rents specialty tools. Maybe one of your parts stores also rents specialty tools. Down side for us, its a 30 mile round trip drive to the nearest auto parts, 45+ minutes lost and add $6.00 (gas) to cost of tool that you will use one time.

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JML755

04-02-2008 06:28:06

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Re: To the retards who posted ridiculous comments at the bot in reply to Bendee, 04-01-2008 15:53:04

Nancy,

Amen on the lack of "design for repair" in modern cars. There are so many examples of poor access, need for special tools, etc., you could write a book. And it's not limited to 1 manufacturer. Just yesterday, noticed puddle of transmission fluid on garage floor from wife's 07 Grand Cherokee. Popped the hood to check the trans fluid. Couldn't find the dipstick. Checked the owner's manual. Trans fluid dipstick is "sealed". To be serviced by dealer only. Took it in to the dealer. Luckily, it's still under warranty. They said, oh yeah, probably an o-ring. Obiviously, this is a known common problem.

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Vern-MI

04-02-2008 11:48:32

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Re: To the retards who posted ridiculous comments at the bot in reply to JML755, 04-02-2008 06:28:06

The manufacturers thought that they were getting a bit of warranty reopair due to the owners pouring in the wrong fluid so they went to the sealed units. What a mess it creates for the consumer when the thing leaks and there is no way to fill it in an emergency.

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39ACB

04-02-2008 06:39:24

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Re: To the retards who posted ridiculous comments at the bot in reply to JML755, 04-02-2008 06:28:06

Now, now, now, hes obvisly mad at the stupid truck. Let him cool down, slow down, and fix the thing right without destroying something elce in the process. Its not that big a deal, and theres nothing to fight about

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Kentb of SWMO

04-02-2008 06:23:12

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Re: Found On Road Dead (in my garage) in reply to RobMD, 04-01-2008 15:53:04

The reason that they use these funky connectors instead of a good old JIC flare is assembly time. he firring they use takes a second at most to connect on the assembly line. A JIC fitting could take up to 30 seconds to assemble.

Kent

P.S. I do not like them either!

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bryan in Iowa

04-02-2008 04:44:30

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Re: Found On Road Dead (in my garage) in reply to RobMD, 04-01-2008 15:53:04

Yes ,,those fitting can be a pain .Like suggested , blow with air, hit it with penatrating oil , wd 40 etc , then get the filter to turn ,hold line with pliers , turn filter , do each side till turns freely ,,,then repeat whole process, air, lube , turn,, then try to get release tool in there to release clips . Still a battle on some ,,but this works . Also when installing new one use never seize . On those wonderfull GM rusted nut fittings , hit em with lube, let em sit for a bit ,give em good shot of air , lube again,then I take an air hammer with a flat bit not chisel type ,,just round bar flat on end /blunt ,then try hitting the filter nut on the flats a few times,,,not hard enough to deform it,, then the line nut few times too ,,carefully be sure to support line or may bend enough to crack rust open on and leak . I do a ton of these in my shop here in the Rust Belt and works 90% of the time ,,other wise your replacing whole line,,and brakes lines too ,,seem like once ya touch em the go too ..

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azharry

04-01-2008 20:59:04

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Re: Found On Road Dead (in my garage) in reply to RobMD, 04-01-2008 15:53:04

Next time before tearing the quick release apart, use compressed air if available to blow out the fitting or spray WD40, Brakeclean, carb cleaner, or something similiar into it. Then use the right size disconnect tool. usually air or some type of lube will do the trick and it will disconnect.

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RobMD

04-01-2008 18:17:36

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To the retards who posted ridiculous comments at the bottom in reply to RobMD, 04-01-2008 15:53:04

Screw off.

Yes, this is a rant.

And yes, I say things that I don't mean, but still, I don't like funny schitt where it takes a modified gizmo tool to install something.

I guess all I can say is, i'll have to get it fixed one way or the other. It's a damm fuel filter.

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Nancy Howell

04-02-2008 05:38:34

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Re: To the retards who posted ridiculous comments at the bot in reply to RobMD, 04-01-2008 18:17:36

Understand how you feel. My 96 Chevy has been a money pit on repairs. Had it 7 years and over $6,000 in repairs. I"ve said for years if the engineers who designed vehicles had to work on them, they"d be designed a whole lot different. The car manufacturers want to put an end to the small mechanics and home repairs so we pay the high dealer repair costs. Sorry, I"m becoming cynical in my older years.

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02XLT4X4

04-02-2008 12:02:27

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Re: Found On Road Dead (in my garage) in reply to Nancy Howell, 04-02-2008 05:38:34

Nancy Howell said: (quoted from post at 05:38:34 04/02/08) I"ve said for years if the engineers who designed vehicles had to work on them, they"d be designed a whole lot different. The car manufacturers want to put an end to the small mechanics and home repairs so we pay the high dealer repair costs. Sorry, I"m becoming cynical in my older years.[/quote:8bebbe9a82]

Really when you step back and think of all the emissions crap and stuff they have to have to make it run right, they don't have that easy of a job to do just get it all to fit in there, and to get it all done for least amount of money, let alone worry about somebody trying to work on it.

[quote:8bebbe9a82="Vern-MI"](quoted from post at 11:50:53 04/02/08) It would have been nice to have the filter installed in a more accessable area under the hood rather than down under in all the road debris.

They were probably trying to keep the major breaks in the fuel line as far away from the passenger compartment/engine as possible. In the event of a accident, inside the frame rail is probably about as safe of a hiding place as you can get.

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RusselAZ

04-01-2008 19:04:41

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Re: To the retards who posted ridiculous comments at the bot in reply to RobMD, 04-01-2008 18:17:36

The way things are built is only for speed on the assembly line. I agree on these fuel filter connectors! I have a whole bunch of disconnect tools as does everyone in the shop and it seems every month there is a new one.

Oh, and GM has screw type for several years and they would rust and twist the line with the nut. Now, out here we don't have a big problem with rust but a little dirt in the release and they are a problem.

Carquest and NAPA have repair ends that work well but they may cost as much as the new line. OOHHH what am I saying,,, it's a FORD.

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1936

04-01-2008 17:44:09

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Re: Found On Road Dead (in my garage) in reply to RobMD, 04-01-2008 15:53:04

On Ford even with the correct tool to remove the fuel filter it was a major problem at times.

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Johnski

04-01-2008 17:39:35

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Re: Found On Road Dead (in my garage) in reply to RobMD, 04-01-2008 15:53:04

Check with your NAPA store, the one near me has repair kits to fix most fuel lines. Be sure to use the correct filter too because the older style car filter fits on nice but the ends are shorter and after you snap them in place you realize that the tool will not fit to remove them. HTH Jf

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Ken Crisman

04-01-2008 17:25:55

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Re: Found On Road Dead (in my garage) in reply to RobMD, 04-01-2008 15:53:04

That's those dern high pressure lines due to the fuel pump being in the tanks . I had a similar problem with my 88 F250 . My neighbor came over & jerry rigged the end somehow so I could get it connected without buying a new setup . I've had to drop both tanks so many times I decidedd to just cut out a square hole in the bed over top of each tank element areas . Then I revamped the tin to make a removable lid so I can just get at the elements easier . The inspection garage didn't like it but its legal as long as the hole is covered over . Good luck & God bless, Ken

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oldironman

04-01-2008 16:40:43

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Re: Found On Road Dead (in my garage) in reply to RobMD, 04-01-2008 15:53:04

Your right. These companys will do anything to save ten cents and then wonder why people go to the forain stuff. If your going to get cheap stuff then you might as well pay the lowest price.

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mjbrown

04-01-2008 16:32:37

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Re: Found On Road Dead (in my garage) in reply to RobMD, 04-01-2008 15:53:04

I'm on your side. A good vent helps lower the blood pressure. They build that stuff the way they do (I'm convinced) to discourage do it yourselfers and send people to the dealers for the work.

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02XLT4X4

04-01-2008 17:13:33

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Re: Found On Road Dead (in my garage) in reply to mjbrown, 04-01-2008 16:32:37

mjbrown said: (quoted from post at 16:32:37 04/01/08) I'm on your side. A good vent helps lower the blood pressure. They build that stuff the way they do (I'm convinced) to discourage do it yourselfers and send people to the dealers for the work.

If you change them every 30k miles like you are supposed to they don't have enough time to get stuck. Really they can't make it much easier, you just flip the clips off, stick the $3 tool in, it unsnaps and it is off. Let it go for awhile and you get into trouble.

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Joe from MN.

04-01-2008 16:23:42

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Re: Found On Road Dead (in my garage) in reply to RobMD, 04-01-2008 15:53:04

CLEAN UP YOUR ENGLISH OR YOU WILL BE REPORTED --- STUPIDITY IS NOT A HANDICAP

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Bendee

04-02-2008 06:34:24

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Re: Found On Road Dead (in my garage) in reply to Joe from MN., 04-01-2008 16:23:42

It's the real deal on TV..This is mild and fewer viewers.

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sounds....

04-01-2008 16:39:51

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Re: Found On Road Dead (in my garage) in reply to Joe from MN., 04-01-2008 16:23:42

like you are the STUPID one. Shut up and mind your own business!!!!! !!!!! !!!!! !!!!

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04-01-2008 16:36:26

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Re: Found On Road Dead (in my garage) in reply to Joe from MN., 04-01-2008 16:23:42

You're gonna run to Mama because of a couple of "frickens"? Good lord, grow a set and maintain your man card. You can't handle that, there are quilting boards.

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Joe from MN.

04-02-2008 04:43:41

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Re: Found On Road Dead (in my garage) in reply to bo, 04-01-2008 16:36:26

Sounds like your one of them I visit in Jail houses

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so you tried to be..

04-01-2008 16:05:15

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Re: Found On Road Dead (in my garage) in reply to RobMD, 04-01-2008 15:53:04

a mechanic and screwed up your fuel line because you did not use the tool correctly and now you mad at Ford?

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usetabesteve

04-01-2008 16:19:59

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Re: Found On Road Dead (in my garage) in reply to so you tried to be.., 04-01-2008 16:05:15

It's a good thing he didn't try the heat wrench. He'd be in orbit now instead of whining here.

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