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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

files and OIL?

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Dell (WA)

03-25-2008 01:01:58




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Guys..... ...been making square holes outta round with square files. (they make square files, really) Making square holes for some BIG 3/4" carriage bolts. But as I'm stroking away in 1/4" thick channel (some slow cutting stuff) the idle thought comes floating by..... .iff'n I use cuttin' oil for the 3/4" drill-saw, HOWCUMM ya don't use cuttin' oil for filing??? or hack-sawing? or did I miss that day at school shop? I use oil on whet-stone for knife sharpening.

And BTW, I once heard you could sharpen files. Ennybody know???..... ....Dell

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dieselpup

03-26-2008 05:15:17




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 Re: files and OIL? in reply to Dell (WA), 03-25-2008 01:01:58  
Oil it! The oil reduces friction and your file will cut cooler, cleaner and faster. Works great for a hacksaw too. Anyone ever grab a bolt that you just cut off with a hacksaw? They can generate a bunch of heat.



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Dell (WA)

03-25-2008 23:42:08




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 Re: files and OIL? in reply to Dell (WA), 03-25-2008 01:01:58  
Thanks guys..... .got 4 outta 8 holes square filed. Unfortunately, the square holes are in middle of implement and could NOT be taken into a machine shop for a little hydraulic punching. PITA. I also bitt-the-bullet and bought a NEW card file $7. My 1967 cardfile had lost almost all its teeth and still had a price sticker of 49-cents. Dang things don't last (grin)..... ..Dell



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Cummins 1955

03-25-2008 19:47:02




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 Re: files and OIL? in reply to Dell (WA), 03-25-2008 01:01:58  
Carbide burr in a die grinder or drill? I use one that is christmas tree shaped to get the corners. They are also called rotary files.



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Chris in SK

03-25-2008 18:27:17




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 Re: files and OIL? in reply to Dell (WA), 03-25-2008 01:01:58  
If you've got many square holes to make, find a hydraulic shop press and get em punched out. Much quicker than filing.



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Spritzer

03-25-2008 17:54:57




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 Re: files and OIL? in reply to Dell (WA), 03-25-2008 01:01:58  
--"making square holes" suggestion: Drill largest hole possible without enlarging the sides. Use a saber saw that puts cam action to the SHARP blade, and square out the hole.



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Areo

03-25-2008 09:47:33




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 Re: files and OIL? in reply to Dell (WA), 03-25-2008 01:01:58  
Hey Dell, iffin you drill a 5/32 hole at each corner of your hole just out far enough not to break through to the 3/4 hole you will have very little left to file. This can save alot of elbow grease. Or use an 1//8 drill if you don't want the divot out of the square hole after you're finished filing, but it takes more elbow grease. Try it on a piece of graph paper to see how it works.

HTH

Areo

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dr sportster

03-25-2008 08:35:35




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 Re: files and OIL? in reply to Dell (WA), 03-25-2008 01:01:58  
In some old book I have or maybe Linsay books new[old] book I read that files are sharpened by soaking in hydrochloric acid.For your hacksaw use wax.Rockwell makes a blade wax for saws that sticks.The Seatek company whuch makes roto-split tools for cutting bx cable sells saw wax sticks just for that tool.Supply house doesnt know what your talking about.It makes the blades last forever and glide through the cable.I think as far as files, in modern times. its just buy a new file.

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Gerald J.

03-25-2008 08:22:23




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 Re: files and OIL? in reply to Dell (WA), 03-25-2008 01:01:58  
I've read of sharpening files by etching them with acid, probably nitric acid maybe sulfuric acid. I've not tried it.

Gerald J.



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Dick L

03-25-2008 07:22:42




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 Re: files and OIL? in reply to Dell (WA), 03-25-2008 01:01:58  
You need a file card. short wire brush kinda thing. Make a few strokes with the file and then clean the file with the file card.



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Bob - MI

03-25-2008 07:01:26




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 Re: files and OIL? in reply to Dell (WA), 03-25-2008 01:01:58  
No reason that oil can't be of benefit. I agree that the logic indicates if it's good for one cutting tool then it would be beneficial for another. If it loads up then clean it with a file card. Kerosene may be the ticket, who knows.

One thing I do remember reading is that a lightly used file would cut better than a new one. The premise was that the new file would have some level of height variation of the teeth. In use, the high teeth would wear so the contact became more consistent throughout the length. This creates an argument either way I think.

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Richard G.

03-25-2008 06:13:56




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 Re: files and OIL? in reply to Dell (WA), 03-25-2008 01:01:58  
An old friend of mine who has been dead many years had some old files laying under an oak tree. When I asked about them, he said the tannic acid from the oak would rust them just enough to make them sharp again.
Richard



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dr sportster

03-25-2008 08:40:02




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 Re: files and OIL? in reply to Richard G., 03-25-2008 06:13:56  
Thats my kinda guy.It musta worked.Reminds me of a guy who threw oiled Harley clutch plates on his shed roof.Everyone else discarded them .After a year he would flip em over.Then after two no more oil soaked,back in his bikle.Actually works good.



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mkirsch

03-25-2008 04:49:01




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 Re: files and OIL? in reply to Dell (WA), 03-25-2008 01:01:58  
The purpose of the oil is to keep the cutting tool and the metal cool and carry the chips away, at least that's what I was taught. Think about it, if the oil was lubricating, you wouldn't be doing any cutting because the cutting edge would slip right across the surface of the metal!

Now, you're talking about machine tools vs. hand-powered tools. Hand tools generally work at a slower rate than power tools, thus there isn't nearly as much heat buildup, and no need for oil.

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NTP

03-25-2008 04:45:00




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 Re: files and OIL? in reply to Dell (WA), 03-25-2008 01:01:58  
Give the oil a try and let us know of your results. You could always soak the file in some type of thinner when finished to remove the oil film. I have square files that are tapered and some go up to about an inch square. They come in very handy at times. I've heard of sharpening files, but have never seen it done. I would assume it would require special equipment and be on the expensive side. It would be like sharpening circular saw blades, more expensive than buying a new one. I frequently use a squirt oil can to lube the blade on my metal cutting band saw and can notice a change in the removal of metal.

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36 coupe

03-25-2008 05:14:18




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 Re: files and OIL? in reply to NTP, 03-25-2008 04:45:00  
Most people have gone to carbide but I still sharpen small blades for 2.00.Many cheap blades are just stamped out,not sharpened at all.There are some junk carbide blades being sold.I dont care for carbide blades on a table saw.I see many carbide saws with teeth missing.Carbide blades cut a wider kerf and need more power.I machine sharpen 30 inch cordwood blades for 20.00.these blades are close to 200.00 new.I see a lot of hand saw blades that are induction hardened.When they do dull they are throwaways.

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36 coupe

03-25-2008 04:31:32




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 Re: files and OIL? in reply to Dell (WA), 03-25-2008 01:01:58  
I expect oil would make the file load up.On a whet stone the oil keeps the stone from glazing.Axe stones are used with spit out in the woods.Square holes are punched with a punch press.Filing holes square is slow work.Dull flies are worse than dull hacksaw blades.Chalk is often rubbed on files to keep them from loading up.Files I use from saw sharpening are not used for any other purpose.Files were soaked in sulphuric acid, supposed to sharpen them.You should have a file card,a fine wire brush to clean the file.Blacksmiths punch square holes in red hot steel with a square punch.

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Eric in IL

03-25-2008 04:26:20




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 Re: files and OIL? in reply to Dell (WA), 03-25-2008 01:01:58  
My guess is any kind of oil would cause the file to load up with chips. I have never heard of sharpening a file.

If you want to reduce your filing time, use a 7/64 bit to drill just inside the four corners before you drill the 3/4 hole. I know a 7/64 isn't very big, but drilling beats filing anyday.



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Dell (WA)

03-25-2008 09:35:57




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 Re: files and OIL? in reply to Eric in IL, 03-25-2008 04:26:20  
Eric..... ..I actually did that, 1/8" was what my CAD design drawing computed. But I "still" haffta file. 1-down, 7-more to go (frown)..... ..Dell



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Eric in IL

03-25-2008 12:33:06




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 Re: files and OIL? in reply to Dell (WA), 03-25-2008 09:35:57  
Dell,

I was half asleep this morning, should have known better than to pick up the calculator. I refigured and came up with .12868 this time.

I did have another idea for you though. How about "saw filing" the corners ? If you have access to a band saw you would have to cut and weld the blade for each hole. Then just move the part back and forth against the teeth. May not work if your part is too big for the throat of the saw. It works pretty good, but I would dang near rather file than cut and weld them saw blades.

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Crem

03-25-2008 06:06:37




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 Re: files and OIL? in reply to Eric in IL, 03-25-2008 04:26:20  
Eric, drilling the small holes in the corners is a nice hint to remember. My arm thanks you for mentioning it.



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