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Need advice on Hydrualic trailer brakes.

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Gene Davis

08-29-2001 18:49:12




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Did an archive search and did not find any posts on this subject matter. I am getting ready to soon place an order for a new 7'x16'- 6,ooo lb. tandem axle trailer. And I have concluded that I would like to have the hydrualic surge brakes on both axles. Would like the facts on what is the good, the bad and the ugly on them as compared to electric, am aware of the price difference, but time you think of the cost of a controller for each of my 3 vehicles, or the trouble of moving the controller each time you have to use a different vehicle it may be worth it. I would like the opinions and facts from some of you people, I think I saw a post that said Al English built trailers. How about some manufacturer's input on the pros and cond. I want it to have brakes on both axles, they have been using 4 wheel automotive brakes since the '20s & 30s so I want to go that route for all the stopping power I can get. What about life expectancy, and/or problems? Electric brakes seem designed to self destruct with a magnet rubbing on the side of the drum. I know there is a lot of good honest knowledge out here, and would appreciate the sharing of it,before I jump in over my head. The manufacturer said the hydrualics were a $280.00 option, but I think it may be worth it. Are disc trailer brakes that much better than the drum type(about $300.00 more than drum)? One more question, he mention something called "free backing" is this related to backing the trailer up and not have the brakes lock up? Thanks! Gene Davis

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George

09-03-2001 16:03:27




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 Re: Need advice on Hydrualic trailer brakes. in reply to Gene Davis, 08-29-2001 18:49:12  
Hello Gene,
Check out this site: www.auscoproducts.com When it opens up click on the Trail'r Brak'r button. This unit mounts on the tongue of the trailer and works beautifully. The sensitivity of this unit can be adjusted according to the load on the trailer. This Trail'r Brak'r system is actuated by an electric brake controller that can be used on any trailer with regular electric brakes. I bought a gooseneck trailer that had hydraulic disc brakes on both axles and it was previously hooked up with a vaccum over hydraulic system. I removed all of the hoses, booster, air volume tanks, etc. I ran a new steel line from the new Trail'r Brak'r (that I mounted on the tongue) and installed tee's in the tubing to connect all 4 wheel calipers. I would not trade this system for all of the electric brakes in the world. As you can tell I am very satisfied with this system. Good luck with whatever system you choose.
George

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ted

08-30-2001 18:58:35




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 Re: Need advice on Hydrualic trailer brakes. in reply to Gene Davis, 08-29-2001 18:49:12  
I would suggest getting the hyd. surge brakes. 1) When a cop pulls you over and sees surge brakes you are more likely to get an ok go ahead(as long as safety chains and break away cable are hooked up)
2) You don't have any electronics to mess with... no shorts, adjusting brakeing effort, battery to buy/maintain, etc--and police like to check them over for proper hookup.
3) no box to buy, no wires to run, no plugs to buy, no instilation nessary in every vehicle (box itself may be able to be moved)
4) No moving that box from vehicle to vehicle(quicker vehicle changes, less chances for equipment to be damaged)
5) Trailer may be used or borrowed by people without elect. brake hookups.
6) Used for many years and had no problems.
7) As far as backing down or up a hill, never had a problem, the trailer brakes are mainly for assisting your vehicle's brakes for quick stops on the highway, your vehicles brakes are probably more then enough to back up or down a hill at slow speeds

As far as the person who suggested air brakes, think--small trailer, not semi trailer. The costs of air compressor, tanks, safety devices, air brake axels, etc. would be very high. Not to mention you would have to get a CDL license with an airbrake endorsement.

Gooseneck trailers (pickup size) usually use electric or Vaccuum over hyd. brakes. The vac/hyd brakes are more costly, but they are nice and work great. The main cost is in the vaccuum pump that must be installed on the engine. This braking system is basically the a copy of your vehicles braking system. Consisting of a vaccuum assisted master cyliender. Only two hoses lead to the trailer. One is a vaccuum supply, the other is a vaccuum control line that controls the amount of vaccuum.

I hope this helpes

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Mark Kw

08-31-2001 19:18:48




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 Re: Re: Need advice on Hydrualic trailer brakes. in reply to ted, 08-30-2001 18:58:35  
Ted, I did not suggest air brakes, just said that I prefer them over all others. I do mostly big truck (semi) work and these are quite simply the best there is. For a small trailer as this, no, they are not suggested. Sorry for the confusion.

I make no bones about it, I don't like surge brakes at all. If electronic brakes are properly hooked up and adjusted, it the next best thing to air brakes because the operation is very similar and you can maintain a better control over the entire vehicle combination. No matter what the combination of vehicle, all brakes should apply evenly and at the same time for best control. This is why the old trolly brake handles have been removed from the semi tractors. The old belief that applying the trailer only brakes in slick conditions resulted in far more wrecks than they avoided. Surge brakes will cause the application of the trailer only brakes many times allowing it to slide out of control behind the tow vehicle. Another problem is on hills. If you let off the throttle and the trailer is pushing, the brakes are riding, on a long downhill grade, the brakes will overheat and fade out. Should you need to stop in a hurry, you have only the tow vehicle brakes to try and hold back the combined weight of everything.

If you doubt what I said about even application of all brakes, pick up a copy of the CDL handbook at your local drivers testing center and read the section on braking, especially down hill control. Good info every driver should know and use.

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Hal

08-30-2001 20:26:46




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 Re: Re: Need advice on Hydrualic trailer brakes. in reply to ted, 08-30-2001 18:58:35  
How do those vacuum brakes work? Is there a small vacuum tank mounted on the trailer? What part in the truck controls the amount of braking force? Is it tied into the trucks hydraulic brake system or does it have a separate controller?



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Hal

08-30-2001 15:25:08




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 Re: Need advice on Hydrualic trailer brakes. in reply to Gene Davis, 08-29-2001 18:49:12  
I have only used surge brakes on boat trailers; they seem to work well in the weight class you are talking about. Obviously, you wouldn't want to be backing electric brakes into water, especially salt water. They usually have a cable breakaway, but I dont know what that would do if the whole rig let loose. Also,almost all rental trailers are surge brakes. As someone else said, let us know what you decide.

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roy

08-30-2001 15:23:45




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 Re: Need advice on Hydrualic trailer brakes. in reply to Gene Davis, 08-29-2001 18:49:12  
where i live you can`t use hyd.brakes on trailers



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Nolan

08-30-2001 12:47:37




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 Re: Need advice on Hydrualic trailer brakes. in reply to Gene Davis, 08-29-2001 18:49:12  
I've used both electric brakes and surge brakes. By and large, I prefer the surge type, pretty much for the reason you've described (pull vastly different loads with 4 different vehicles currently).

One other thing I especially like about a surge brake is that you will never have the trailer shove you. With electric brakes, unless you actuate them either by the brake pedal or the lever, you can have the trailer shoving you along. Very nasty in the hills with a heavy trailer. Especially down hill in the rain.

For simple hook up and go, the surge brake is superior, in my opinion.

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Mark Kw

08-30-2001 06:32:28




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 Re: Need advice on Hydrualic trailer brakes. in reply to Gene Davis, 08-29-2001 18:49:12  
I'm going to go along with what Gordon said, especially about them locking up when trying to back the trailer up.

Electric brakes can be done cost effective if you are not planning on dragging more than one trailer at a time. You said you have 3 tow vehicles which is not a problem if you only drive one at a time.

If you get a good electronic controller, you need only buy one controller and two extra wire harnesses. You put the harnesses in each vehicle the exact same way but instead of hard wiring the controller to the harness, you put a quick disconnect plug between the harness and controller. This way you can take the expensive controller from one vehicle and plug it into any of the other two as needed.

Personally, I prefer air brakes but for smaller trialers, electric are the way to go. I would also suggest you check local DOT laws as well for the size/weight of the trailer before you do anything else.

I happen to have a new in box Voyager controller and one wire harness on hand that I got for a job and did not use. I was about to put it up on ebay but if you're interested, email me.

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Gordon (in IN)

08-29-2001 19:59:37




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 Re: Need advice on Hydrualic trailer brakes. in reply to Gene Davis, 08-29-2001 18:49:12  
You might want to check the DOT Regulations before you go too far in your decision process. Plain or standard surge brakes may "activate" or lock up if there is much resistance to "backing up" the trailer (such as on soft ground or uphill). There are a number of approaches to remedy this. One is to have a "locking pin" that locks the surge brake coupler and defeats the system. You must remember to remove the "locking pin" before towing the trailer "forward" or you will not have any brakes. I have seen this only on very old surge brake systems and never on any rental units. Some surge brake systems with drum brakes have a cam on one of the shoes in each hub that releases it when the wheel is turning backwards and the brakes are applied, thus "no brakes" in reverse. (You can back the trailer uphill.) If you install your own axles, you must be very sure to install them in the correct orientation or direction or the brakes will not function. (If the axle is installed "backwards", the axle will "see" the "forward motion" as "backing up" and the brakes will not function.) It is my understanding that "surge brakes" (hydraulic) brakes may be used on "recreational trailers" (such as boat trailers, horse trailers, rental trailers, and snow mobile trailers) up to some weight limit. "Commercial trailers" cannot use surge brakes; they require "brakes which are applied (or activated) from the drivers compartment". Some state laws may "overlap" or "conflict". Best to first check it out in your state and area where you will be using the trailer. Good luck, let us know what you find out and decide to do.

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Dusty

08-30-2001 08:29:22




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 Re: Re: Need advice on Hydrualic trailer brakes. in reply to Gordon (in IN), 08-29-2001 19:59:37  
Another advantage with electric breakes is that many trailers, probably required above a certain weight, have break away breaks. They use a small gel-cell battery on the trailer.



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