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GMC 1 ton, gas or diesel?

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macco

03-22-2008 17:13:06

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Gonna buy a new 4 door dually GMC. 15,000 miles a year pulling a loaded trailer aprox. 15 weekends a year.Gas engine(vortec 6 liter) is aprox.6,000 dollars less than diesel. Question is, could I get by with the gas engine? Enough horsepower? All miles would be out on interstate highway. Trailer will be a 48' gooseneck with aprox.8000# inside. All your opinions wellcome. Thanks.

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dave guest

03-24-2008 20:55:32

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Re: GMC 1 ton, gas or diesel? in reply to macco, 03-22-2008 17:13:06

T Bone thanks for info. Especially about less injector noise. I will try to slow down. Promise. Thanks again. Sounds like you gotta lotta long distance haul experience. I only went 15K in 3 years.

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T_Bone

03-24-2008 21:26:43

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Re: GMC 1 ton, gas or diesel? in reply to dave guest, 03-24-2008 20:55:32

Hi Dave,

Well I travel for 6mths in the Az summers as it's a dry heat here that I don't like...LOL

I only have 27k miles on my 02 F350. I spent the first 2k miles running fuel mileage tests for break in mileage. That helped me alot as #1 it was when fuel was $1.50gal :<)

My fuel mileage test road is 135 miles RT on a typical InterState for my area. My fuel stop is at one end, right off the Interstate and my house is close to the other end. 60% flat and 40% rolling hills and a small 4% grade.

This let me retrain my driving style to yield the best fuel mileage. My gasser bad driving habbits had to change to get the good fuel mileage on my diesel.

T_Bone

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dave guest

03-23-2008 18:30:06

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Re: GMC 1 ton, gas or diesel? in reply to macco, 03-22-2008 17:13:06

What am I doing wrong? Got 2005 Ford 350 diesel 6 liter new. 18MPG Put 2200 pound camper on, dropped to 13MPG. New diesel fuel down to 10 and 11. I was told to run overdrive on level ground, long as trans don't heat up. I do run some 70mph. Max air pressure. Power service additive in every tank. Use A/C if needed. Any special oil? Stay out of overdrive, what? Thanks a whole bunch.

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T_Bone

03-23-2008 20:37:06

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Re: GMC 1 ton, gas or diesel? in reply to dave guest, 03-23-2008 18:30:06

Hi Dave,

I have the 7.3PSD so I'm basing my opinion on that. You didn't say what ratio you have.

Your 70mph is whats killing you. Unless you drop to 60mph, pay the fuel man and don't complain. :<)

My fuel mileage test road says that using Power Service will yield 1.5mpg lower fuel mileage than No2 on my 7.3.

I really liked PS in the early 90's as it would yield 52mpg on winter fuel on my VW diesel. Without PS 35mpg. Since that time PS has changed there forumla and I just didn't get results. They also have 3qts in there 1gal jug where as before it was 4qts.

I use 1qt/100gal of ATF type F for a injector lube. That's been used for over 60yrs that I know of so it has a excellant track record. This cut my injector noise by at least 1/3.

I pull load weight by RPM only. From AZ to Co, 1800ft to 11000ft to 1800ft, pulling my 16kGCW RV, I consistantly yield 14.2mpg over several trips with 60mph tops on the flats. I always pull in OD where I can. I use 5th gear and 1750rpm, approx 44mph, while pulling 7% & 8% grades.

There's only 10 minutes difference in pulling a 10 mile 7% grade at 44mph than pulling at 55mph but you save a ton of fuel.

T_Bone

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buickanddeere

03-24-2008 18:18:56

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Re: GMC 1 ton, gas or diesel? in reply to T_Bone, 03-23-2008 20:37:06

Still takes the same total amount of work to haul the load up the hill at 5 or 55mph. You are only changing the amount of time it takes. The 44 mph vs. 55 mph only saves fuel due to reduced wind drag. Same if you were on level ground.

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T_Bone

03-24-2008 19:17:04

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Re: GMC 1 ton, gas or diesel? in reply to buickanddeere, 03-24-2008 18:18:56

Hi B&D,

Well at 44mph I'm at 1750rpm and at 55mph@2200rpm plus the extra wind drag.

From my fuel mileage test road, empty load weight:
1750rpm=19.2mpg
2000rpm=17.1mpg

I did not test fuel mileage above 2000rpm as I don't drive that fast.

T_Bone

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HeyPigFarmer

03-23-2008 13:01:08

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Re: GMC 1 ton, gas or diesel? in reply to macco, 03-22-2008 17:13:06

On road diesel was .50 cheaper than gas back in January 2004. So Brain, you are right. It was a long time ago, 4 years, which the way things go lately that means fuel was half price of what it is now. If you would have read that close it gives the month and year right in the first line of that paragraph.
Never liked an automatic behind a diesel, every truck on the place has a manual in it here. Chevy tried to neuter themselves on that, if you got a manual behind the Duramax they never cranked it above the original 300hp and 520 ft-lb. Now you can't get a manual in a GM truck at all, gas or diesel.

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jose bagge

03-23-2008 08:43:40

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Re: GMC 1 ton, gas or diesel? in reply to macco, 03-22-2008 17:13:06

does the gas truck come with the Allison trans? If not, include that upgrade in the additional dollars and that engine/trans package may sound well worth it. If you internet shop these, you'll find the differnce is a lot less than the 6k...but I also have to add that most of my diehard chevy friends have traded their 3500s for F450s this year...

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HeyPigFarmer

03-23-2008 06:04:33

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Re: GMC 1 ton, gas or diesel? in reply to macco, 03-22-2008 17:13:06

Jokers - I was talking about the brand new ones. Not anything that is a 2006 or later. The brand new ones with the particulate trap on the exhaust. Get on just about any diesel truck forum and the only ones on there that are getting decent mileage are the ones lying about it. I know a guy that traded off his 2005 Dodge/Cummins (21mpg average) for the exact same truck with the new 6.7 and only gets 11 at best. Many people with the powerstroke or duramax are only reporting 8-10. The government went and ruined a good thing.
If you are going to get a diesel, I would get something 2006 and older, not one of these 2007 and newer idiot machines that try to burn themselves to the ground. 1100F at the particulate trap, ouch.

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buickanddeere

03-23-2008 05:52:41

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Re: GMC 1 ton, gas or diesel? in reply to macco, 03-22-2008 17:13:06

Depends if you want "status" or the most economical vehicle?
As previously stated a 2-3 year old gasser will not only outpull a new diesel. You wallet will also be 25 grand heavier.

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BUDD

03-23-2008 05:42:16

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Re: GMC 1 ton, gas or diesel? in reply to macco, 03-22-2008 17:13:06

macco

Here is my opinion. The diesel should get about 15 plus mpg with that type of weight, at $4 for a gallon of fuel you are talking about $.26 per mile for fuel. A gasser will get 10 maybe and at a cost of $3.10 per gallon you are looking at $.31 per mile for fuel. That is a savings of $750 per year in the fuel cost. At that rate you can never justify the extra cost of the diesel, but if you drive a diesel right you have a lot better chance to improve the fuel mileage on a diesel than you can ever do in a gas. A diesel is worth about 3 to 4 thousand more used that a gasser is. I would not buy a gasser for what you want to do..... . Now after having said all of that I would buy a used Dodge (03) with a Manuel trany and 354 gears, yes I said 354 gears (with the power of the Cummins). This is about the best setup for what you will be doing. There are a bunch of guys that pull campers all over the country with this set up and love it. They are getting 15 plus loaded and 20 plus empty. From what I have heard and read a Duramax is not as forgiving on the way you drive compared to a Cummins or a powerstroke when it comes to fuel mileage.
BUDD

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guido

03-23-2008 05:33:15

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Re: GMC 1 ton, gas or diesel? in reply to macco, 03-22-2008 17:13:06

Hello Macco
My vote is for diesel, you won't be sorry.
They are 15% more eficient than the gas engines, and better torgue in the lower R.P.M'S.
Guido

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LAA

03-22-2008 20:59:00

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Re: GMC 1 ton, gas or diesel? in reply to macco, 03-22-2008 17:13:06

Doug, somebody is lying to you about the high milage pulling a loaded cow trailer.Sorry,done it to many years.If it is any consolation, I here the same BS every year in Talladega from guys pulling travel trailers.

Lawrence

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rockyhawaii

03-22-2008 20:48:54

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Re: GMC 1 ton, gas or diesel? in reply to macco, 03-22-2008 17:13:06

When I bought tow-trucks I went with gassers, purely because of cost for maintenance. I couldn't justify keeping one truck for long enough to make up the difference in fuel costs. At the time it would have taken about fifteen years of driving to break even.

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HeyPigFarmer

03-22-2008 20:30:38

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Re: another question in reply to macco, 03-22-2008 17:13:06

If you are talking brand spanking off the lot new, go gas. The new emissions on the diesels have the mileage choked down so far on them you get single digits just driving the truck around empty. With the price difference between gas and diesel, plus the 16 quart oil changes, the fuel filters, the more expensive air filters, it just doesn't make sense.
When my brother bought his last truck (January 2004) he was looking at two ford trucks. If you compare the Ford 6.0 diesel at 20mpg and a Ford V10 gas at 10mpg, diesel at 50 cents cheaper per gallon than gas, factor in the cost of maintenance with the oil changes, filter changes and what not it is 1cent per mile cheaper to drive the diesel. So any time that diesel is less than 50 cents a gallon cheaper than gas you are losing money. Unless you absolutely need the power, and the extended life of the diesel, I would go gas.

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jokers

03-23-2008 04:19:11

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Re: another question in reply to HeyPigFarmer, 03-22-2008 20:30:38

"The new emissions on the diesels have the mileage choked down so far on them you get single digits just driving the truck around empty."

That`s not true, even with the Duramax. I have plenty of friends who drive them and report 15-17 mpg unloaded and not pussyfootin'.

My 04.5(with cat) Ram 3500 and a slide in dumper which weighs 8200# empty gets 17-18 in local driving and over 20 on the highway WITHOUT cruise control but I have to watch how I accelerate. Towing a 10,000# trailer knocks me down to about 13 mpg and most of my friends report 11-13 mpg towing with a Duramax.

My brother just towed a 36'(?) Montana 5th wheel 7K + miles around the country with his 06 3500 dually Cummins and he averaged just over 18 mpg loaded/unloaded. Of course he drives like gramma away from the stop signs, lol.

Tow with a diesel once and not only will you never go back to a gasser but you`ll wonder how you ever did it before having the diesel.

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Macco

03-22-2008 19:09:23

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another question in reply to macco, 03-22-2008 17:13:06

Could a diesel handle a 3.73 gear? I know 4.10 is what is common, but this is all highwaqy use . Let me know what you guys think. Thanks.

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RobMD

03-22-2008 19:22:18

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Re: another question in reply to Macco, 03-22-2008 19:09:23

Better gas mileage with the 3.73 gearing (on the highway only). Worse torque accelerating from a stop, though. Probably more ideal for highway driving, hilly country on the other hand will be a lot of shifting with an automatic.

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jokers

03-23-2008 04:22:59

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Re: another question in reply to RobMD, 03-22-2008 19:22:18

"Better gas mileage with the 3.73 gearing (on the highway only). Worse torque accelerating from a stop, though. Probably more ideal for highway driving, hilly country on the other hand will be a lot of shifting with an automatic." A 3.73 is plenty of gear for most truck trailer combos under 18k with a diesel IMO. I don`t find my truck shifting all that much on hills when towing and I have a 3.73.

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T_Bone

03-23-2008 02:11:35

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Re: another question in reply to RobMD, 03-22-2008 19:22:18

Hi Macco,

I bought a 02 F350, DRW, CC, lwb, 4wd, 6spd, 3:73, PSD and it pulls 16kGCW to 31kGCW just fine being stock.

My son bought a 04.5, Dodge, SRW, CC, 4wd, swb, 4:10, 6spd, CTD and it has more lower end torque than my F350.

On my fuel mileage test road, both trucks used 6th gear on my hill with mine at 51mph and son's at 53mph, for the same driving style. Both trucks would need to use 5th gear while pulling any type of serious load weight on a 4% plus grade.

On any DBW fuel system, a good driving style produces good fuel mileage. A slightly less driving style can drop you 2mpg really fast.

On my 02 F350, my 27k mile life time fuel mileage average is ***15.2mpg*** that includes pulling 16kGCW to 31kGCW load weight for 9000miles. total miles/total gallons used

There's not a gasser around that can come close to my fuel mileage numbers and pull the same load weight.

From my fuel mileage test road, same fuel stop, same fuel pump, filled to the filler neck each time, same time of day, same driving style, produced the following yields:

55mph=21.75mpg
60mph=19.2mpg
65mph=18.5mpg
70mph=17.1mpg

I'm 8miles to the Interstate and if I acellerated just a tad too hard while getting to the interstate for the above testing, I could drop 1.5mpg really easy. That told me it's all in my driving style.

T_Bone

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charles(mo)

03-22-2008 18:50:34

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Re: GMC 1 ton, gas or diesel? in reply to macco, 03-22-2008 17:13:06

Diesel is about $1 more per gallon than gas here in south east mo. Oil change is about 3 times higher than gas engine. Fuel filter change every time you turn around. I would consider the 6k difference

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jose bagge

03-23-2008 08:40:02

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Re: GMC 1 ton, gas or diesel? in reply to charles(mo), 03-22-2008 18:50:34

fuel definitely more expensive now...oil change at 10qts for duramax a bit more, but done every 10,000 miles. My 06 has pulled down an average of 17 mpg for the last 100,000 doing everything from daily commute to 10,000 lb towing

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doug in illinois

03-22-2008 17:32:51

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Re: GMC 1 ton, gas or diesel? in reply to macco, 03-22-2008 17:13:06

Yes, the 6.0 gas will have (barely) enough power. But, for the 6K price difference, I would go with the diesel any day. I have a 6.0 gas in my 2500 4x4, makes lousy mileage, one of my freinds has a 2500 4x4 HD with the Duramax. He makes a consistant 22 MPG highway, and 15 to 20 with a loaded trailer. We are talking 10 to 18 head of cattle when I say loaded trailer. My pickup, similar weights, 8 MPG loaded, 13.6 empty. His is the rare exception on MPG, but with the price of fuel, even with diesel being higher, would still go diesel. Over the life of the truck, the 6K price difference will more than pay for itself. DOUG

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tg in VA

03-22-2008 17:31:02

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Re: GMC 1 ton, gas or diesel? in reply to macco, 03-22-2008 17:13:06

Diesel. But, why buy new? There are plenty of good used duallys out there where someone else has already suffered the depreciation.

I've been hauling horses for 30+ years, bumper pull, gooseneck, 2 horse, 4 horse, 6 horse. There's no comparison between the diesel and the gas. I've had three gas and four diesel. No more gas for me, even with the current egregious price differential between gas and diesel.

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Fawteen

03-22-2008 18:26:33

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Re: GMC 1 ton, gas or diesel? in reply to tg in VA, 03-22-2008 17:31:02

I got an idea that a whole lot of people who bought diesel duallys because they were "cool" but didn't reallly NEED that much truck will be scrambling to sell them with diesel over $4 and no end in sight.

I'd expect you could get a darn good deal on a used rattler with few miles and none of 'em hard.

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Jlmtractor

03-22-2008 17:25:57

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Re: GMC 1 ton, gas or diesel? in reply to macco, 03-22-2008 17:13:06

in my expierence with GMC dont buy one diesel if you are pulling that much for that long. fuel milage is the same for gas and diesel. in my opinion buy a ford or dodge

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Brian Jasper co. Ia

03-23-2008 10:34:03

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Re: GMC 1 ton, gas or diesel? in reply to Jlmtractor, 03-22-2008 17:25:57

If you're looking for reliability, you won't be looking at a power stroke. Those 6.0 fords are garbage. When I was a tech at a Ford/Dodge dealer I put 12 injectors in one the same visit. That night the owner made it 30 miles away and came back on the hook for 4 more. Between injectors, head gaskets, and EGR coolers, that 6.0 is a miserable excuse for an engine. The 5.9 Cummins is by far much more reliable. Not as powerful, but they don't leave you stranded like the Fords would. The 48RE trans is not up to diesel torque though. If you want horsepower, the Duramax is king of the hill right now.
I'd like to know where diesel is $.50/gal cheaper than gas. Been a couple years since that has been in Ia.

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jokers

03-23-2008 11:26:49

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Re: GMC 1 ton, gas or diesel? in reply to Brian Jasper co. Ia, 03-23-2008 10:34:03

"The 48RE trans is not up to diesel torque though"

That`s too bad, I'd better yank mine out as soon as I can!!!

Sorry brother but I`m callin BS on this lame old story.

I don`t question whether the Allison is a better tranny, I`d love to have one for the extra speeds, but I don`t have a problem with a tranny that many people are getting 150k - 200k out of in a truck used for towing and hauling.

Other guys can break a rock and if they could get their Duramaxes to last as long as a Cummins the Allison would probably be called junk just like the 48re, and for the same reasons.

Sometimes I need a good "rolling eyes" emoticon on this forum.

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