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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

mig welder..

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dlplost

03-17-2008 03:04:17




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I've been a stick welder (hobby only) for 40 years, some of you have seen my backhoe/loader on the 8n. Well the kids keep finding thinner and thinner things for me to fix for them, so i finnaly broke down and got a mig welder. I got the Hobart Handler 140.
Dang, I can't believe how easy it is to use, point and shoot. I've allways hated thin stuff, usually make things out of 3/16 or thicker with the stick welder. this thing is actually fun to use...Dont want the kids to find that out.

Anyhow, this came with everything except the argon tank. I'm not shure which size tank to get, Im planning to do some occasional aluminum welding, but not a lot, what size do you guys suggest, and what kind of cost is involved? Lease/buy the tank?
cost of argon per cf?
I'm thinking I want an 80cf tank, but not shure..suggestions??

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dlplost

03-17-2008 23:10:40




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 Re: mig welder.. in reply to dlplost, 03-17-2008 03:04:17  
Thanks for the info guys, Wife has found a welding supply place thats only about 8 miles away, I'm going to talk to them this Friday.
She says that from the way he talked on the phone, it'll be cheapest for me to buy my own tank, and they just swap out the tank for refills. I'll see what he says Friday.

And like I said, I've been stick welding for 40 years, I know from experience that I can stick weld 1/8" aluminum at 140 amps, been doin it for a couple of years now, just couldn't do the thin stuff that this mig welder can do.

Again, thanks guys..

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T_Bone

03-18-2008 12:19:47




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 Re: mig welder.. in reply to dlplost, 03-17-2008 23:10:40  
Hi dlplost,

As I explained to Kent, I think using a 100%AR is a wise move for a home shop at $65/200cft cylinder.

You get the best all around gas for either Mig or Tig. For about $100 or less, you can add a scratch start Tig torch while using DCEN with 2%tungston.

T_Bone



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Dennis Moore

03-17-2008 12:12:15




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 Re: mig welder.. in reply to dlplost, 03-17-2008 03:04:17  
argo/co2 for steel as has been said, but you do not have a big enough welder for aluminum, 250 amp minimum for aluminum, I prefer a 350 amp pulse machine for aluminum.



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trucker40

03-17-2008 11:53:52




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 Re: mig welder.. in reply to dlplost, 03-17-2008 03:04:17  
Like others said argon is for aluminum,for steel you can use argon 25% and co2 75% mix,or straight co2.Getting a tank is kind of how much welding do you do and how much do you want to spend?If you have a welding shop close to you,just see if they will keep a tank for you and rent or buy one from the company that supplies that shop.If you buy one of those little tanks stores sell they charge you more to fill it if they even will fill it.You would save money getting it from a distributor.It costs a lot to start with,but you can rent them for 20 years.The 60 dollars you save buying one from a store will be eaten up the first 4 times you get the bottle filled.I tried that at first and my tank was empty about every time I went to use it,plus I had to haul it myself to get it filled,then go get it when it was full.A small rental tank is about 3 times as big as a store bought tank and lasts through several rolls of wire.

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Kentb of SWMO

03-17-2008 06:24:56




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 Re: mig welder.. in reply to dlplost, 03-17-2008 03:04:17  
You can not use pure argon on mild steel. Most people use 75% argon 25% CO2. I do not. I use 100% CO2 on mild steel. You get a little more splatter but it is WAY cheaper on gas. Save the argon for aluminum.

Kent



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T_Bone

03-18-2008 12:12:23




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 Re: mig welder.. in reply to Kentb of SWMO, 03-17-2008 06:24:56  
Hi Kent,

There would be no reason not to use 100%AR on mild steel as to it"s weldability. Using 100%AR on mildsteel would certifiy without any problems.

Yes it would be more costly to use 100%AR in a production enviorment but for the home shop where a guy may use one 200cft cylinder a year, then I see where it would be more cost effective as then I only need one cylinder of gas at $65/200cft to weld with Mig or Tig.

Another problem I had with keeping a tri-mix gas cylinder I had for many years, 75AR/23HE/2o2, is I didn"t use it often and the gases seperated inside the cylinder to where I used up most of the AR first and the left over gas mix didn"t Mig weld worth a darn, about 1000psi or 50% of the gas left. I had to add more AR to use the rest of the cylinder contents.

T_Bone

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Kentb of SWMO

03-18-2008 14:27:52




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 Re: mig welder.. in reply to T_Bone, 03-18-2008 12:12:23  
I was told by the welding supplier where I bought my Miller 200 that if Argon is used as a shielding gas on mild steel, the weld bead from the mig wire will lay on TOP of the base metal. THe weld will VERY WEAK because there in NO penetration of the filler metal.

Kent



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T_Bone

03-18-2008 18:56:25




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 Re: mig welder.. in reply to Kentb of SWMO, 03-18-2008 14:27:52  
Hi Kent,

Well that is a very unusual statement from a gas supplier as there pretty sharp on welding theory.

Yes, I do agree that there will less penetration when using 100%AR when comparred too using 100%Co2 on mild steel, however just adding as little as 0.5volt increase would over come any lack of penetration while using 100%AR.

Now this is more critical on small amperage Mig machines like my SP100 but it's nothing that a slight adjustment of wire speed won't correct as 99% of the time I run the machine wide open voltage on any type of welding I use it for and only adjust wire speed for differnet materials.

T_Bone

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dlplost

03-17-2008 10:25:08




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 Re: mig welder.. in reply to Kentb of SWMO, 03-17-2008 06:24:56  
Yea, im using flux core on the steel, looking at argon just for the aluminum.



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Brian in MI

03-17-2008 04:37:27




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 Re: mig welder.. in reply to dlplost, 03-17-2008 03:04:17  
Great choice on the welder. I have a Hobart handler 180 and love it. I leased the tank for mine 80 cuft with argon / Co2 mix. I couldn"t find anybody that would sell the tank outright. I belive you will need different gas and mixes for alumnium or stainless.
Hope I helped a little,
Brian



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