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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Cinicinnati #1 horizontal mill

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mark

03-14-2008 15:38:34

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I bought an old Cincinnati #1 mill a couple days ago and I need to get a vise for it and a manual. Any of you folks know where I might either of these items short of re-mortgaging the homestead? I know Kurt makes a super vise....they cost more than I paid for the mill! I am just a tinkerer...the best of the best is beyond my requirements. I don"t want some sloppy Chink junk....just a decent vise...about 4" wide. I have searched the net trying to find a manual for this machine and have come up empty handed thus far.

I am not a machinist....obviously, this is a new venture for me. Maybe some of you with experience can share some of your knowledge with me. Thanks.

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joe fabregas

03-16-2008 07:06:18

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Re: Cinicinnati #1 horizontal mill in reply to mark, 03-14-2008 15:38:34

I've had good luck at times at the scrap yard for tooling & vises. You never know what's going to turn up but you have to get friendly with the owner as the tool steel is usually scooped up and hidden away as it's worth more. Good luck! joe-

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john d

03-15-2008 18:07:36

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Re: Cinicinnati #1 horizontal mill in reply to mark, 03-14-2008 15:38:34

Link below.

Wholesale Tool

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TimV

03-15-2008 06:42:13

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Re: Cinicinnati #1 horizontal mill in reply to mark, 03-14-2008 15:38:34

Mark: Enco is probably a good place to start for new stuff--their lower-end stuff is China-made but actually pretty good quality. Check their "hot deals" sale fliers--standard procedure for Enco is to have half the catalog on sale one month and the other half (it seems) on sale the next month, so there's lots of stuff that's always "on sale". E-bay also has lots of this stuff, though shipping might turn a good deal into a not-so-good deal due to weight of these items. Enco runs free shipping on orders over $100 or $200 on a very regular basis, which can save you considerable money if you time your purchases.

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mark

03-15-2008 07:13:58

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Re: Cinicinnati #1 horizontal mill in reply to TimV, 03-15-2008 06:42:13

That"s exactly what I am going to do....take a look at what Enco has. The purists gall at the thought of using some of that stuff and trust me.....I"d love to have a high dollar Kurt vise. I"d also like to have a 12 cylinder Bentley, that New York high dollar call girl"s phone number, and the money to afford her services. But...none of those luxuries are in my future. So, I will have to make do with what I can afford....or do without.

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TimV

03-15-2008 07:52:32

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Re: Cinicinnati #1 horizontal mill in reply to mark, 03-15-2008 07:13:58

"the purist galls at the thought"... I've been in many, many machine shops over the years, including ours at work (where I do all the design and programming for our EDM and CNC mill work) and I can tell you that there's as much Enco stuff in most as there is Starrett or Brown & Sharpe. Like most things, it's a matter of being willing to sacrifice 5% of the functionality for 50% of the price, and in all but the most demanding applications, you can easily get by with less expensive tooling. Expensive tooling, much like expensive golf clubs, will only help if the operator is already highly skilled in their use, and buying the most expensive stuff in hopes of overcoming poor skills and technique (or in the hopes of looking like a professional) is a waste of money.

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mark

03-15-2008 12:38:09

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Re: Cinicinnati #1 horizontal mill in reply to TimV, 03-15-2008 07:52:32

TinV,

Your logic is a breath of fresh air. It"s important to many folks to boast of only having the best..whether they can realize the benefits of such equipment or not. I knew a man once who wanted to learn to pluck a banjo...of course, he had to buy a $5,000 model to learn on..and later sell because his delusion of grandeur turned out to be mostly vanity.

I am not a machinist. I probably never will be. I want to play, and attempt to make a few things...essentially things I cannot buy or find anybody willing to make for me. I understand that most folks who do this work, day in, and day out, would rather spend their free hours doing something else...hence, no interest to making hobby projects for the likes of me. The only alternative is to turn learn to do it myself. If I had the funds to finance a high dollar machine shop...I could easily afford to hire somebody to make what I want...on demand. So, here I am trying to gather in a few tools that will satisfy my needs. Thanks so much for your thoughtful input.

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Bret4207

03-15-2008 06:23:02

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Re: Cinicinnati #1 horizontal mill in reply to mark, 03-14-2008 15:38:34

Jump, why not PM Buckshot? He has the inside scoop on a lot of this stuff. If you don't want to do that Ebay has loads of that stuff and places like Enco, MSC and even Grizzly have loads of it too.

Good on you BTW! Wish I could get outta debt enough to get the 13x40 lathe and Index mill I found.

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mark

03-15-2008 07:21:19

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Re: Cinicinnati #1 horizontal mill in reply to Bret4207, 03-15-2008 06:23:02

Bret,

I haven't had any contact with Buckshot since I left Cast Boolits. I tried to get him to do the fur getter frame for me, but being the chicken$hit he is, he walked the other way the minute I mentioned it. In fact, anytime there was any controversy on that board, Buckshot was conspicuously absent.

As for debt...well, by and by, you'll dig out. It took me a long time to become payment free...but I had to learn to do without a lot of things debt allowed me to enjoy. A Kurt vise is one example, LOL!

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Bret4207

03-16-2008 07:36:10

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Re: Cinicinnati #1 horizontal mill in reply to mark, 03-15-2008 07:21:19

Ah well, it was a thought. You have a Marbles Game Getter? Legalities aside I'd LOVE one. I make do with a Savage 24 22/410. Ready for the garden?

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mark

03-16-2008 12:54:37

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Re: Cinicinnati #1 horizontal mill in reply to Bret4207, 03-16-2008 07:36:10

Bret,

No, this isn"t a Marbles Game Getter...it"s a Taylor Fur Getter. Different all together. There is no ATF issues because they have been taken off the "dangerous devices" list and placed on the Curios&Relics" list where they always belonged. It is strictly that...a Curio. They are game law illegal everywhere and anybody with any conscience, wouldn"t set on anyway. The thought of some child accidentally messing with one makes my hair stand on end. I wanted a duplicate for display purposes..the original is too valuable to risk theft.

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Bret4207

03-16-2008 16:41:17

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Re: Cinicinnati #1 horizontal mill in reply to mark, 03-16-2008 12:54:37

Ok, now I know what you're talking about.

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wdTom

03-14-2008 17:37:38

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Re: Cinicinnati #1 horizontal mill in reply to mark, 03-14-2008 15:38:34

I have a 6" Bridgeport vise and a 8" Brown and Sharp that even has a serial no. Both might be for sale. But they are so heavy you would want ot pick them up, not ship. Both are probably bigger than you want anyway. I am in R.I.

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farmerbill13

03-14-2008 17:20:35

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Re: Cinicinnati #1 horizontal mill in reply to mark, 03-14-2008 15:38:34

Try the site called practical machinist.

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Spook

03-14-2008 17:12:56

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Re: Cinicinnati #1 horizontal mill in reply to mark, 03-14-2008 15:38:34

That's a little guy. The cinncinatis went up to a #6, and then they went into boring mills. A #6 would have a 8ft + table, and weigh a couple of tons. On a horizontal, a vise isn't as important a a good angle plate, and maybe a indexing chuck or dividing head if you get into something complex. A hold down set, from TECO would be nice, need to see what size key you would need. You MIGHT find a right angle attachment for it, turning it into a vertical. You can do pretty much anything you can do on a Bridgeport, but it takes a little longer to set up. On the plus side, it is a better machine for boring work, since the head is rigid. For a precision slot it would be better too, especially if you have an outboard support rigged up. Been 30 years since I ran one. Have fun, and be safe.

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rader

03-14-2008 17:01:15

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Re: Cinicinnati #1 horizontal mill in reply to mark, 03-14-2008 15:38:34

I would look for a used Kurt, but If you want to get by cheap "enco" makes a device that they call a vise. It also depends on what type of parts that you are machining, (how much hogging you will be doing).

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Gun guru

03-14-2008 16:50:54

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Re: Cinicinnati #1 horizontal mill in reply to mark, 03-14-2008 15:38:34

You should be able to get a 6" Kurt vise (new) for about $380-400. A used one you should get for about $100-200. Try Ebay. Do you have tooling for the mill. Cutters are expensive, What HP motor. A vertical Bridgeport is easier to operate and can act like a premium drill press with the right chucks and collets. I have never ran a Horizontal Cincinnati milling machine but I know that you can do some serious hogging on one with a 5HP motor.

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benny2

03-14-2008 16:41:08

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Did you try Re: Cinicinnati #1 horizontal mill in reply to mark, 03-14-2008 15:38:34

Did you try Cincinnati, they used to supply manuals for most all their old stuff. You just need the S/N

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J Schwiebert

03-14-2008 17:49:16

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Re: Did you try Re: Cinicinnati #1 horizontal mill in reply to benny2, 03-14-2008 16:41:08

Do they have a web site? I have an old Cincinnati lathe? Thanks in advance. J.

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Bendee

03-15-2008 00:10:54

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Re: Did you try Re: Cinicinnati #1 horizontal mill in reply to J Schwiebert, 03-14-2008 17:49:16

Gooooo ooogle "cincinnati lathe"

Cincinnati lathe & tool co manuals
www.machinerybrochures.com/shop/page401.html www.machinerybrochures.com/shop/C.html

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benny2

03-14-2008 18:16:45

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Re: Did you try Re: Cinicinnati #1 horizontal mill in reply to J Schwiebert, 03-14-2008 17:49:16

I dont know if they have a web site, it would be listed as Cincinnati Malicron if they do. I used to just call and tell them what I had. I have gotten NEW original books from them. One was for a old Cini Lathe. What do you have a old Tray Top?

The Cini lathes were Great machines just very under rated.

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timcasbolt

03-14-2008 16:09:38

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Re: Cinicinnati #1 horizontal mill in reply to mark, 03-14-2008 15:38:34

Sometimes you can find used kurt's on ebay for not too much if you keep your eyes open. The 4" ones would sell for less as most people prefer the 6" version. The Chinese knockoff versions of these from places like Enco and others would be ok for the use you describe. If you get one, get the rotator for it too. You'll thank me later.

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mark

03-14-2008 19:26:03

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Re: Cinicinnati #1 horizontal mill in reply to timcasbolt, 03-14-2008 16:09:38

Like I said, I know Kurt makes a fine, expensive vise. They are just beyond my reach. Granted, those you who have been in the trade....and the employer providing all that high dollar equipment..can attest to how important a precision vise is, and how you get what you pay for and all that. Retire and live on a pension, and start buying that stuff from your wallet and it gets out of reach....fast. I live in KY....those vises in RI are just too far away.

Yes, the #1 is a little mill...it only weighs about 1500 pounds. I have no idea what those bigger models way...but lots.

Had money been no issue....I would have bought a much newer Bridgeport with all the bells and whistles, complete with a barrel full of tooling and Kurt vise....and a private instructor...LOL! Thanks for everybody's input.

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