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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Bolt grade vs Welding: Photo

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Paulw_NJ

03-13-2008 05:09:01




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third party image

Sorry guys, I should have included a photo to better describe what I'm trying to do.

I was thinking about threading a Gr 8 stud, or a Gr 8 bolt with head cut off, down into what's left of the threads in this cast steel bracket, and then welding it into the bracket. This piece is half of the bracket that clamps around the rear axle on a 240U, that the hitch stabilizer bars connect to. The bolt, or stud, needs to be about 6 inches long.

I figure welding is the only fix because I tried drilling thru the bungled up hole but there is something really hard stuck 1/2 inch down inside. Got the brackets at a salvage yard.

As I mentioned, I'd like to use Gr 8 for it's strength, but concerned that weld heat will take the strength away from the bolt.

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Fred Martin

03-14-2008 09:47:27




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 Re: Bolt grade vs Welding: Photo in reply to Paulw_NJ, 03-13-2008 05:09:01  
You can tell if it is heat treated with a good file. If it files easily...it's just a mild steel casting and it won't hurt to heat the whole end to a cherry red to anneal the devil inside. Cooling should be slow...stick it in a bucket of lime or sand and leave it for a couple of hours. Then it should drill out with a high speed drill. Steady feed pressure should be used as a drill just spinning on some alloys will work harden them and you're back to square one. I, myself would consider cutting off the whole end and fabbing a new one and welding it on with 7018 as T Bone suggested or 80/9018 if it is an alloy. ohfred

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MarkB_MI

03-13-2008 18:53:01




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 Re: Bolt grade vs Welding: Photo in reply to Paulw_NJ, 03-13-2008 05:09:01  
What about brazing the bolt in place? It seems that this would provide nearly the same strength as welding while not getting the steel hot enough to anneal it. Brazing would "sweat" down into the threads, making for a pretty strong joint.



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T_Bone

03-13-2008 16:11:07




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 Re: Bolt grade vs Welding: Photo in reply to Paulw_NJ, 03-13-2008 05:09:01  
Hi Paul,

That's probably cast steel and not cast iron. If cast steel then it will weld well with 7018.

I would do as the others suggest, remove the offending part.

A old gun smithing trick will work well here. Using a 6v/12v battery with a piece of copper clad carbon electrode, stick the electrode on the piece to be drilled until cherry red then remove electrode then drill.

This will soften the piece to be drilled about 1/16" in depth each time. Repeat as many times as nessecary.

Use the negitive lead on the carbon. DC battery current flows from negitive to positive. CU clad carbon elctrodes can be bought at any welding supply as there used for air arc cutting and carbon arc welding.

You can also use a high amp, high duty cycle, rated DC welding machine as the source but man is it hard on them and you can quickly exceed the machines duty cycle rating. A battery is a much safer use.

T_Bone

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Jerry/MT

03-13-2008 14:11:07




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 Re: Bolt grade vs Welding: Photo in reply to Paulw_NJ, 03-13-2008 05:09:01  
In my opinion, you need to get whatever is broken off in that hole out of there and then try to fix the bracket assembly. If you don"t have drill press or the correct drills, a local machine shop should be able to do it for you. If your investing a lot of time repairing something, you want it to work properly when you"re done. Doing it right the first time is always the cheapest way to go.



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trucker40

03-13-2008 13:14:22




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 Re: Bolt grade vs Welding: Photo in reply to Paulw_NJ, 03-13-2008 05:09:01  
You can if you are careful take a cutting torch and blow a broke off bolt out of cast iron.The slag can be cleaned out of the threads.You dont want to get it any hotter than you have to and its hard on a cutting tip.If you have a die grinder,get a carbide tip that will reach inside(they cost from 15-30 bucks)and eat through the easy out or hard bolt in there.You might get lucky and whatever it is may only be hard part way.Then use drill bit.Or if you can somehow get it in a drill press,use a good bit and lots of oil you might get it,or take it to a machine shop.Total waste of time trying to weld it in.I could be wrong.

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bolt

03-13-2008 12:07:38




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 Re: Bolt grade vs Welding: Photo in reply to Paulw_NJ, 03-13-2008 05:09:01  
I'd say a machine shop is your best bet. Once you get the threads fixed you could use the red lock tite to make sure it never loosens but still come apart if it has to.



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Dell (WA)

03-13-2008 08:21:17




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 Re: Bolt grade vs Welding: Photo in reply to Paulw_NJ, 03-13-2008 05:09:01  
Paul..... ..clean out yer handle hole and then file off a side of the stud yer going to use; (why? 'cuz you need some space for puckey to grab onto and prevent turning out) and "J-B Weld" it. 24hr cure is tuff'n'ell. Simple, eh?..... ..Dell



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wyod

03-13-2008 07:53:50




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 Re: Bolt grade vs Welding: Photo in reply to Paulw_NJ, 03-13-2008 05:09:01  
I agree with the others... the heat involved in welding has the potential to cause problems... and if you can only get the new "stud" about 1/2" into the bore, I would think you'd eventually have problems from that aspect as well. You mention something hard stuck in the hole... should be able to drill through it with a cobalt drill... failing that, a solid carbide drill will definitely git'r done. with either of these "hard" drills, correct rpm is very important!

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jhill52

03-13-2008 07:11:04




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 Re: Bolt grade vs Welding: Photo in reply to Paulw_NJ, 03-13-2008 05:09:01  
Find a machine shop that has a an EDM machine. They can burn out the bolt and not harm the threads. Not very expensive anymore.

EDM is Electro Discharge Machining - very common in tool and die shops.

Jerry



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Dave in Tx

03-13-2008 06:40:35




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 Re: Bolt grade vs Welding: Photo in reply to Paulw_NJ, 03-13-2008 05:09:01  
Put a heli-coil in there and you are back good as new.



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Eric in IL

03-13-2008 06:50:26




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 Re: Bolt grade vs Welding: Photo in reply to Dave in Tx, 03-13-2008 06:40:35  
Dave,

I considered that too, but the picture looks like the one edge is pretty thin already. Using a Heli-Coil won't help that situation.



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Eric in IL

03-13-2008 05:32:15




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 Re: Bolt grade vs Welding: Photo in reply to Paulw_NJ, 03-13-2008 05:09:01  
Man, I think you were on the right track trying to drill that hole thru so you could use a longer bolt and a nut. If it were me I wouldn't give up on that method. I would measure/layout center of hole from the opposite side. Then start with a smaller drill, maybe a 3/8 or so. Drill until you hit the hard stuff. Then sharpen you a flat bottom drill and hit it with that. Break out the 3/8 pin punch and beat that hard thing outta there. Then finish enlarging hole from the threaded side.

I'd get that hole through somehow, even if I had to resort to the cutting torch.

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IaGary

03-13-2008 05:52:36




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 Re: Bolt grade vs Welding: Photo in reply to Eric in IL, 03-13-2008 05:32:15  
Eric is right. Get a hole in it somehow.

Just welding around the bolt will never hold, on cast iron.

Gary



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