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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

cost of a broken bolt........

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glennster

03-08-2008 05:13:55




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okay, here is a rundown. goofy 6 wheel atv i got at auction, starter mount bolt broke off in block. grade 8 bolt, aluminum block motor. bolts about 1/4 inch diameter, metric of course. pb blaster....4.00 can, snap on left hand drill bit, cobalt bits due to gr 8 bolt....set of 5...48.00. easy out.....8.00.... no go..... metric heli-coil kit and drill bit.....30.00.....total..... $$$ 90.00 for a dollar socket head bolt..... man, i thought gas was expensive!!!!!

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glennster

03-08-2008 15:30:46




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 Re: cost of a broken bolt........ in reply to glennster, 03-08-2008 05:13:55  
it was a hardened bolt, i figgured around grade 8 at least. standard drill bit dint make a mark in it, hats why i went with a cobalt drill. at some point in the past the bolt was broken off, probably when the starter was removed. the motor is a jlo/ rockwell 400 cc 2 cly 2 stroke. it mounts the bracket that the starter bolts to. has to be in exact spot for proper alignment of starter drive to ring gear on engine.

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Aaron Ford

03-08-2008 12:22:47




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 Re: cost of a broken bolt........ in reply to glennster, 03-08-2008 05:13:55  
Heck, that is cheap. Try paying the dealer to do it. And you still have the tools, cause the next one will cost less, the next even less... At least we hope!

Aaron



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Bret4207

03-08-2008 11:12:00




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 Re: cost of a broken bolt........ in reply to glennster, 03-08-2008 05:13:55  
Interesting on the metric designations! I never gave a thought to metric being different hardness, Of course that would be non-American metric. I'll bet American made metric bolts follow our system. European, Japanese, Korean, British, etc might well be different.

Thanks for the tip fellows!



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oj

03-08-2008 08:12:57




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 Re: cost of a broken bolt........ in reply to glennster, 03-08-2008 05:13:55  
If metric it can not be grade 8, this is for standard SAE bolt specs. IT could be grade 8.8 which is very roughly equivalent to a standard grade 5 bolt. I"ve just bought some grade 10.9 metric bolts (M14) about 4 inches long (100mm) for my tractor, they have an Allen Head on them not the regular 6 sided head, $14 each, and i needed 8, silly engineers didn"t leave enough room for a regular head...

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Billy NY

03-08-2008 07:33:29




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 Re: cost of a broken bolt........ in reply to glennster, 03-08-2008 05:13:55  
Like was mentioned, had to be defective, even at 1/4" dia. one would think that unless it was substantially bonded to the dissimilar metal, the aluminum block, you should have some margin to work with when trying to remove it being a grade 8, on the other hand it's still small diameter, fooled you with a lesser grade or it had a defect, then you work on it thinking it's grade 8... snap. Those helicoil kits were always expensive, but sometimes the only solution.

In retrospect, the cost of one dab of anti sieze or nickel compound having been applied at assembly time etc., to provide a bond breaker between the dissimilar metals, priceless !

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Oly Orama

03-08-2008 06:56:55




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 Re: cost of a broken bolt........ in reply to glennster, 03-08-2008 05:13:55  
You say grade 8?

Grade 8 is a term used on american fasteners.

Perhaps you mean a #8 metric hardness. Which is not very strong.

And if this is one of these chinese copy machines, that #8 designation may just be a copy of the designation number and nothing more.

Anyway if it's too much for you to handle. take it somewhere and have it done.



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Billy NY

03-08-2008 07:18:21




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 Re: cost of a broken bolt........ in reply to Oly Orama, 03-08-2008 06:56:55  
I'm actually not that sure of the metallurgical properties and what defines the differences in grades except by strengths shear, tension, and or compression. Most fastener suppliers will have those properties listed in their catalogs, which is helpful for selection.

American Society of Testing Materials (ASTM) is an expansive testing reference standard that covers all kinds of materials, like capscrews (bolts) and fasteners. If I am not mistaken, grade 8 is the equivalent to ASTM designation A325 bolt, same as used commonly on structural steel connections, and are called high strength bolts.

Caterpillar used bolts that I believe were a grade 9, at least thats what I have been influenced to believe, and mechanics have told me, they did a lot of pioneering in the engineering of materials for their own products, would not surprise me, have identified their fasteners by the corporate logo on the head.

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NBAllen

03-10-2008 14:29:40




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 Re: cost of a broken bolt........ in reply to Billy NY, 03-08-2008 07:18:21  
Actually Grade 8 is similar to ASTM A345 Grade BD (same strengths, different steel).

Machinery's Handbook reports the following:
SAE Grade 8 - Proof = 120ksi, Tensile = 150ksi, Yield = 130ksi

ASTM A325 - 3 different types (Type 1, Type 2, Type 3) and two spec's depending on bolt size.
1/4" to 1" dia - Proof = 85ksi Tensile = 120ksi, Yield = 92ksi.
1 1/8" to 1 1/2" - Proof = 74ksi, Tensile = 105ksi, Yield = 81ksi.

Type 1 is Medium Carbon, Type 2 is low-carbon martensite, Type 3 is Weathering steel.

Nathaniel

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Bret4207

03-08-2008 06:54:10




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 Re: cost of a broken bolt........ in reply to glennster, 03-08-2008 05:13:55  
Jeeze! I got a buncha broken bolts I'd let you have for a lot less than that!!!!

As for why it broke- Probably defective to start with.



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Ted in NE_OH

03-08-2008 06:25:54




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 Re: cost of a broken bolt........ in reply to glennster, 03-08-2008 05:13:55  
How much did you save because it was known that this repair was needed?



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john niolon

03-08-2008 05:31:37




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 Re: cost of a broken bolt........ in reply to glennster, 03-08-2008 05:13:55  
Glen,

you"re overlooking one important thing... you got to waste probably a whole day being frustrated, cussing, throwing stuff across the shop and chasing the dog away with your attitude . I hate it when little stuff like that can rob me of so much time and energy..

Now the question... what would shear a grade 8 bolt without damaging the aluminum it was screwed into ?? Surely not enought torque from an ATV starter ??

later
John

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RobMD

03-08-2008 08:41:49




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 Re: cost of a broken bolt........ in reply to john niolon, 03-08-2008 05:31:37  
I agree with the having a bad day thing. I try not to do that anymore. :(



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