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remote tire pressure

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MF294-4

02-28-2008 20:02:53

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How do the new vehicles read the tire pressure in each tire? Some of you tire guys will know.

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03-05-2008 19:22:34

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Re: STAGGER in reply to IH2444, 02-28-2008 20:02:53

JOSE BAGGE said: (quoted from post at 19:07:44 03/03/08) I don't think you'll be able to detect a circumference difference accurately your way. To be more accurate, get a 1/4" wide 8 foot tape measure ( any wider and it "buckles", giving you bad measurement). Air up a tire to 22 psi and measure it by wrapping the tape around the center of the tire. Now- boost the tire to 30 psi and measure again. Whatcha got? probably a 1/4" more. Might not sound like much, but let's say that tire spins 600 times per mile...that's 12.5 FEET of difference in a mile. Plug that onto a locked rear, and where would that put you?

Racers will get that 1/4" tape and dive into the tire truck looking for stagger...on similar sized tires you can find as much as 2" of circumference variation in a stack of 50 tires.

Ok, whatever you think I'll go along with but right now I gotta go out and make sure the tires are even close to the same circumference (+ or - 2.873 in.) on the marking tractor 'cause we'll be getting water in the canal PDQ .... Later 8)

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03-02-2008 11:22:28

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Re: remote tire pressure in reply to Roger in Iowa, 02-28-2008 20:02:53

jose bagge said: (quoted from post at 19:07:03 02/29/08) Tire circumference absolutely changes with air pressure...that's why air pressure is so critical in oval racing....change air pressure and you change stagger.
Not as large a change on radial tires as on bias...

Air up a tire to recommended pressure, mark the tire where it touches the ground (6 o'clock) and mark the spot on the ground as well. Roll the tire until the tire mark is at 6 o'clock again and mark the spot. Deflate the tire to what looks 'low' and repeat the roll ..... mark the 6 o'clock spot and measure back to the previous spot then measure from that spot back to the first one ..... .. 8) Under-inflation does cause more drag and a change in handling characteristics as Bob M said but the distance around the tire tread is 'constant' for all practical purposes. A wide faced tire on a too-narrow rim would exhibit some crowning at high pressure that would not be evident with a proper tire/wheel combination. So, is the handling change evident by 'stagger' settings due to a change in circumference or in drag, side-wall flex, directional change response or ????

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JOSE BAGGE

03-03-2008 17:07:44

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Re: STAGGER in reply to mj, 03-02-2008 11:22:28

I don't think you'll be able to detect a circumference difference accurately your way. To be more accurate, get a 1/4" wide 8 foot tape measure ( any wider and it "buckles", giving you bad measurement). Air up a tire to 22 psi and measure it by wrapping the tape around the center of the tire. Now- boost the tire to 30 psi and measure again. Whatcha got? probably a 1/4" more. Might not sound like much, but let's say that tire spins 600 times per mile...that's 12.5 FEET of difference in a mile. Plug that onto a locked rear, and where would that put you?
Racers will get that 1/4" tape and dive into the tire truck looking for stagger...on similar sized tires you can find as much as 2" of circumference variation in a stack of 50 tires.

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farmer boy

03-01-2008 16:26:47

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Re: remote tire pressure in reply to MF294-4, 02-28-2008 20:02:53

Are you talking about a device that monitors tire pressure. If so you can buy them for $150.

Remote Tire Monitoring System

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iowa_tire_guy

02-29-2008 19:59:49

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Re: remote tire pressure in reply to MF294-4, 02-28-2008 20:02:53

By law 20% of 2006 vehicles under 10,000 lbs and 70% of 2007 vehicles and 100% of 2008s had to have the sensors inside the tires. Just bought the $650 tool to make it work. Also just broke a sensor hidden inside a Ford wheel that cost $112 to replace. Yep, sure will pay attention next time.

When all cars are idiot proof only idiots will be driving them. Or something like that.

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jose bagge

03-01-2008 05:14:18

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Re: remote tire pressure in reply to iowa_tire_guy, 02-29-2008 19:59:49

The last 2 I've had to eat never even got to the dismount stage! core "ears" broke off and pulled the guts of the core out, but left in the corroded threads so that a new core could not be installed. Both big Nissan trucks- $159 each.
watch for 'em, tire man!

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deadeye012

02-29-2008 08:37:12

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Re: remote tire pressure in reply to MF294-4, 02-28-2008 20:02:53

Here is another website for you to look at. I have this on my 5th wheel camper and it works for me....JB

Untitled URL Link

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02-29-2008 06:58:37

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Re: remote tire pressure in reply to redtom, 02-28-2008 20:02:53

MPK said: (quoted from post at 22:29:39 02/28/08) I have a Buick and the way it works it counts the revolutions on each wheel so when one tire is low it makes it like the wheel is smaller so it makes more rev's on that wheel. I have had a false reading one time and just had to reset it on the dash.

BUT ..... the tire's circumference doesn't change with different air pressures ..... right? It still has to travel a given distance, the length of the tread, no matter ..... right? Or am I just corn-fused ..... :roll:

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jose bagge

02-29-2008 17:07:03

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Re: remote tire pressure in reply to mj, 02-29-2008 06:58:37

Tire circumference absolutely changes with air pressure...that's why air pressure is so critical in oval racing....change air pressure and you change stagger. Not as large a change on radial tires as on bias...

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Bob M

02-29-2008 09:33:02

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Re: remote tire pressure in reply to mj, 02-29-2008 06:58:37

Theoretically tire circumference will not change with changes in air pressure. Reality however is the "effective circumference" decreases significantly with loss of pressure.

I experienced this just a couple days ago with my walk-behind snowblower with a solid drive axle (ie. no differential). The machine kept drifting annoyingly to the right and had to be constantly "stong-armed" into cutting a straight path.

After fighting with it a few minutes I discovered the right tire was very low. (Tire didn't look flat but didn't have enough air to even show on a tire gage). After adding air until pressure matched the tire on the other side the snowblower once again tracked nice and straight.

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Bus Driver

03-01-2008 06:23:29

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Re: remote tire pressure in reply to Bob M, 02-29-2008 09:33:02

Another term used to describe the tire size while in use is "Rolling radius". Pressure does affect it.

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fepo69

02-29-2008 06:55:51

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Re: remote tire pressure in reply to MF294-4, 02-28-2008 20:02:53

I see many new cars today with the sensor mounted in place of the valve stem in the rim. You notice that the valve stem is larger and solid metal not rubber.

PITA for sure, when you put winter rims/tires on you dont have the sensor anymore.... and they are costly to buy.... anyhow, the amber light will eventually burn out if you dont pull it out and problem solved. Use a tire gauge.

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jose bagge

03-01-2008 06:44:03

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Re: remote tire pressure in reply to fepo69, 02-29-2008 06:55:51

some of the "newer" version have a sensor that screws into the bottom of wht looks like a standard stem...so when an old school tire tech goes to pullwhat he thinks is a standard valve, he destrpys the sensor.
Best practice: never just pull the stem, always deflate by removing the core. Always break a bead 90 degrees from the stem (banded sensors are always found 180 from the stem)

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Dan in Houston

02-29-2008 06:39:18

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Re: remote tire pressure in reply to MF294-4, 02-28-2008 20:02:53

There are at least two types of systems. One type works off the ABS sensors. when a tire gets low, it's circumference gets smaller so it rotates faster. The ABS system measures it and triggers the dash light when necessary. One drawback to this system is if you spin a wheel going over a speedbump, it can trigger a false reading.
My wife's Suburban has the sensors mounted inside the tires that give an actual reading on the dash in psi. I have checked the readings against a calibrated gauge and they are all within 1 psi. When you rotate tires, you have to reset the system by resetting the dash computer then slowly bleeding air out of the tire until the computer beeps. Takes about 5 minutes to do all tires.

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36 coupe

03-03-2008 17:01:56

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Re: remote tire pressure in reply to Dan in Houston, 02-29-2008 06:39:18

It takes less time to check pressure with my 99 cent tire gauge.

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Bob M

02-29-2008 06:29:31

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Re: remote tire pressure in reply to MF294-4, 02-28-2008 20:02:53

Like MPK mentions in his post below, on GM cars tire pressure is indirectly by monitoring and comparing RPMs for each wheel. When any wheel shows a sustained deviation from the other three triggers the dash warning light and gong.

It's not perfect however. My wife's Impala sometimes gives a "low tire pressure" warning when travelling long, sweeping curve section on local interstate. (The turn totals 120 degrees over about a mile and a half). Often the warming sounds just before exiting the turn - I presume because the left side tires are constantly turning just slightly faster than the rights over around the long curve. The ABS computer mistakenly assumes the sutained wheel RPM differential is from low tire pressure on one side.

The only place I ever get the alarm is on this particular curved stretch of interstate.

Also the car owners manual mentions the "low pressure" alarm may sound after installing a tire that's slightly different in diameter from the one it replaced.

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azharry

02-29-2008 04:31:58

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Re: remote tire pressure in reply to MF294-4, 02-28-2008 20:02:53

How quickly we forget 10 years ago when there were all of those accidents and rollovers on Ford Explorers from people driving around in a heavy vehicle without ever checking their tire pressure. Here we are today with all new model vehicles required to have a tire pressure monitoring system that will turn on an amber warning light on the dash (which the driver may ignore) to let the driver know there is a problem. Is the system perfect, no. It may require you to read that book of forbidden verses called an owner's manual to understand it. It does add a little time to tire rotations because, the tech has to perform the relearn procedure so that the cars know that the left front tire was moved to the left rear position. Yes, the tire busters have to be a little more cautious breaking down tires to prevent sensor damage but, that just takes a little training and experience. All this because we're too lazy to use a tire pressure gauge once a month. It's not that easy to find a gas station with a working air supply anyway if you needed air.

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jose bagge

02-29-2008 17:17:29

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Re: remote tire pressure in reply to azharry, 02-29-2008 04:31:58

forget, squat....how quickly we accept the total BS of the whole Exploder issue that was 100% a ford fiasco rather than a firestone issue. Fact:
Ford's recommended inflation for those tires, based on owners manual and door jam placard, had the tires overloaded right from the get-go. Fact: the P235/75-15 was an undersized application to begin with on that vehicle. This is the same company that gave us the 195/75-15 Firestone (a VW bug sized tire) application for the 85-86 Ford F-150!
i don't sell Firestone, but they were screwed in that deal. And yes- the tire TECHNICIAN needs to be more careful now with every damn thing- alloy wheels, low aspect ratio tires, and now TPMS- all for $9.00 an hour- less than flipping burgers at McDonalds.

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jose bagge

02-29-2008 03:15:24

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Re: remote tire pressure in reply to MF294-4, 02-28-2008 20:02:53

TPMS (tire pressure monitoring systems) will be the biggest pain in the a$$ in the tire industry soon- if not already. There are two types of sensors- a band sensor that can attach to the wheel or a sensor that is attached to the back side of the valve stem- both of which break routinely when dismounting old tires. These are NOT universal, but are vehicle specific, and need to be reprogramed when tires are rotated or the sensor is replaced. They use a special zincvalve core, which often corrodes and destrys the sensor. They work by determining the air pressure in a tire the same way an oil pressure sensor would work- off above a pre-determined pressure, on when you drop below- then remotely send to vehicle computer. Total pain in the rear to service- and now of course federally mandated.

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dhermesc

02-29-2008 06:50:02

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Re: remote tire pressure in reply to jose bagge, 02-29-2008 03:15:24

"These are NOT universal, but are vehicle specific, and need to be reprogramed when tires are rotated or the sensor is replaced. They use a special zincvalve core, which often corrodes and destrys the sensor. They work by determining the air pressure in a tire the same way an oil pressure sensor would work- off above a pre-determined pressure, on when you drop below- then remotely send to vehicle computer. Total pain in the rear to service- and now of course federally mandated."

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Its a real PIA when you rotate your tires and the shop forgets to reprogram the wheel placement. The company Impalas never have a tire guage and I was getting a low tire warning. Kept putting air in the tire that the computer said was low then I was getting a warning of to much pressure in another tire.

There's an air guage in the glove box of all of our company cars now.

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37WC

02-28-2008 21:01:19

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Re: remote tire pressure in reply to MF294-4, 02-28-2008 20:02:53

Check out this web site.
37WC

http://www.tirepressuremonitor.com/

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MPK

02-28-2008 20:29:39

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Re: remote tire pressure in reply to MF294-4, 02-28-2008 20:02:53

I have a Buick and the way it works it counts the revolutions on each wheel so when one tire is low it makes it like the wheel is smaller so it makes more rev's on that wheel. I have had a false reading one time and just had to reset it on the dash.

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Ryan - WI

02-28-2008 20:21:53

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Re: remote tire pressure in reply to MF294-4, 02-28-2008 20:02:53

Most of them have a battery operated sensor on the rim inside the tire. That sends a wireless signal to a receiver inside the vehicle regarding the air pressure.

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Mark - IN.

02-28-2008 20:16:15

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Re: remote tire pressure in reply to MF294-4, 02-28-2008 20:02:53

I don't know if they really do, or is more of a sensor that says the vehical's tilted, so a tire must be going down. I changed the battery in Mom's Buick, and when I started it, had some indicator on the dash that said her tire(s) are low and I said to myself, "Gee, my chevys or dodges never had anything that fancy". She said when the Buick guy worked on it, did the same thing, so he cleared the computer. I think its tilt, but...don't take me to the bank as an investment.

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jose bagge

02-29-2008 17:27:22

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Re: remote tire pressure in reply to Mark - IN., 02-28-2008 20:16:15

Hah, now we get into another simple task made stupidly difficult by "modern technology"- changing a battery! All of THINK it's easy- until we disconnect a battery and have to reset every dog-gone thing in the car. Without using a memory saver (cheapest is a 9 volt plugged into the cigarette lighter), plan on resetting stero, clock, and probably one or two dash lights- and often having to reset computer to restore decent "driveability". Home mechanic beware- ain't nothing simple on late model stuff!

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Mark - IN.

02-28-2008 20:17:54

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Re: remote tire pressure in reply to Mark - IN., 02-28-2008 20:16:15

By the way, I checked her tires and they were all up, so...

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504-2

02-29-2008 18:51:29

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Re: remote tire pressure in reply to Mark - IN., 02-28-2008 20:17:54

There was a TSB a few years ago warning that 9 volts might set off an air bag and to only use a 12 volt memory saver. I still remember when a customer had his Mercedes towed in with a dead battery and after replacement the radio was locked up and he had to go to the dealer to have it fixed (250 mile trip)

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