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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

New welder ?

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JeremyR

02-25-2008 17:59:55




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Finaly scarped up enough for a mig welder and thinking of a Lincoln electrric. Witch do you guys prefer tapped or continous voltage settings and why. I looking at 175-180 amp models 220v nothing real big but enough to sart with.

Jeremy




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Stan in Oly, WA

02-27-2008 14:16:54




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 Re: New welder ? in reply to JeremyR, 02-25-2008 17:59:55  
Hi Jeremy,

I'm probably responding too late for you to see this, but here goes. First, while infinite adjustment is superior to taps in most ways, I think you would have to be a complete expert to even be able to recognize a difference of a few volts one way or the other. If you're that good, though, you can easily deal with a less than perfect situation, so the taps should still be okay.

What might be more important in choosing between taps and continuous voltage adjustment is that taps are sometimes found on machines that are lower quality in other ways, too. That's what I heard about Lincoln 175 amp MIG welders several years ago. The better unit had continuous voltage control, and the other had taps, as well as several less obvious lower quality features.

People who use a MIG welder as their general purpose welder frequently advise prospective purchasers to buy units with at least 200 amps capacity. The higher top end provides a longer duty cycle even if you don't need the high amps, and having more power than you need is always preferrable to having less. My feeling is that the more critical division is not at some amount of amps as much as it is between 110 and 220 volt machines.

A way to keep your cost down and still get what you need is to get a good (Lincoln, Miller, or Hobart) MIG welder in the 180 amp range, and a good used AC/DC stick welder for jobs that are beyond the capacity of the MIG welder. Buy the MIG new and use it a lot right away so you can find out if it has any problems while it is still under warranty. Buy the used stick welder at your leisure so you can find a good deal. Used ones are almost always perfectly good because not much ever goes wrong with a stick welder. But don't buy a cheap brand---get a Lincoln buzz box, a Miller Thunderbolt, or a Hobart Stickmate if you can. There are other well made stick welders out there from companies that are no longer in business---Linde, Airco, Forney, etc., and if you pay little enough, it shouldn't matter that parts could be difficult or impossible to get. What wears out on well made stick welders are usually the parts that are generic anyway---leads, electrode holders, etc.

All the best, Stan

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J.C.in AZ.

02-27-2008 15:12:00




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 Re: New welder ? in reply to Stan in Oly, WA, 02-27-2008 14:16:54  
Say Stan: Are you sure that Forney is out of buisness? Reason I ask is that the local Ace Hdwe has a Forney Display Rack with all kinds of products labeled for Forney from Welding Helmets to Grinding Discs and Welding Rod etc. I just bought a new Cutting Goggles to fit over my Eye Glasses to replace the ones I used to use off that Rack. Haven't been around a Welder Dealer in a long time so don't know what is available new. I've had my Forney for a long time ,since around 1960 I think.Always ready to Weld what ever I want so it has helped me out a lot.JC

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Stan in Oly, WA

02-27-2008 16:04:01




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 Re: New welder ? in reply to J.C.in AZ., 02-27-2008 15:12:00  
Hi J.C.

Forney is still producing some welding related products, as you noted, but they're not making welders anymore. I suspect that they're not providing repair parts for their old welders, either. Not that that's much of a problem, though. Forney welders just about defined the expression "bullet proof" as it applied to trouble free products, in my opinion.

All the best, Stan



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Chris P

02-27-2008 05:51:24




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 Re: New welder ? in reply to JeremyR, 02-25-2008 17:59:55  
Miller is realy the way to go, also you should spend the extra money and get a co2 bottle, or co2 argo mix. Dont use the flux core wire, it works ok but make a bit of a mess. You get a cleaner weld with the use of gas.



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Jack In Fla

02-26-2008 17:56:32




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 Re: New welder ? in reply to JeremyR, 02-25-2008 17:59:55  
I bought a millermatic 180 mig, and it was a problem from day 0ne. then bought a linclon mig, with diamond enhansed technology, and does that thing weld good. I really liked it. Had to go into hospital and have a defiblater, pacemaker put in my chest, and now cannot be within 15 foot of working welder, and that is a bummer Jack



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jose bagge

02-26-2008 17:03:48




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 Re: New welder ? in reply to JeremyR, 02-25-2008 17:59:55  
My first MIG was a Hobart Beta 250- I bought the biggest, baddest i could afford in 1985 when i started stuffing stockcars into the fence in earnest. It cost me $1800 back then, more than most of the engines I was building. Paid for itself a multitude of times over, and taught me a pile. occasion drive wheel hang-ups, but otherwise a fine machine.
It laid down last year after 22 hard years, and my wife (bless her heart) bought me a Millermatic 210, which has also proven to be bombproof so far. Drive wheels swap without tools, so I can hop from wire-to-wire with no issues...I wanna say this is about a $1300 machine now. I don't think you can go wrong with a Hobart as long as you get out of the "pocket Mig" range- stay with a 220 machine....and I am hoping that the Miller rep speaks for itself- I will know in another 20 years.

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JeremyR

02-26-2008 14:07:58




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 Re: New welder ? in reply to JeremyR, 02-25-2008 17:59:55  
As far as Know right know I wil be taking a course in the spring at a locale school. Anything over about 200 amps starts really hurting my funds not just for the machine but I'm pushing my electrical service. I dont plan on a whole lot of work with just mowers and yard art stuff and few other little projects.

Jeremy



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Harvey3

02-27-2008 11:23:01




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 Re: New welder ? in reply to JeremyR, 02-26-2008 14:07:58  
Jeremy, you can save yourself a few bucks by buying a good used welder, there's lots around, you may have to wait a bit to find exactly what you want.



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trucker40

02-26-2008 10:39:57




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 Re: New welder ? in reply to JeremyR, 02-25-2008 17:59:55  
Never used a Lincoln,but Miller and Hobart are good.I have a HTP welder thats good.Their phone number is 1-800-USA-WELD.I wish I would have got a Tweco gun with it,but the one that came with it has lasted 10 years now,hard to find tips for it.They have a video that shows you how to weld.Its not as good as hands on experience,but it is full of good information.You can buy the tape and not buy a welder from them.A couple of times I had a problem,called them and they told me just what to do to fix it,good customer service.

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Goose

02-26-2008 10:19:36




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 Re: New welder ? in reply to JeremyR, 02-25-2008 17:59:55  
Steer away from Clarke. I have one and it took me five years to get it working like it should.

The whole problem is (was?) Clarke used a plastic liner for the wire to feed through in the hose. When the liner warmed up, it would bind the wire and cause all manner of feed problems. I finally figured it out and found out Hobart uses a steel liner the same size. I put a Hobart steel liner in the Clarke and it FINALLY works like it should.

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jose bagge

02-26-2008 17:06:26




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 Re: New welder ? in reply to Goose, 02-26-2008 10:19:36  
Yes, that Hobart liner was considered an "expendable" by my distributor and he would swap 'em out for me every year or so if i brought it by his shop (National Gas)



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T_Bone

02-26-2008 05:04:40




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 Re: New welder ? in reply to JeremyR, 02-25-2008 17:59:55  
Hi Jeremy,

If it was me I'd head to the nearest Vo-Tech school and take a short course. This would let you try out the newest and latest machines for a cheap cost and maybe gain you some tips on Mig welding.

Sorry but I haven't used any of the newer Mig machines so I just can't say what there like today.

From knowing Mig welding tho, I would suggest you stay over 200amps. You want to to make a decent single pass weldment on 1/4" material. Try a "T" joint. Any less and you just won't be happy as it's easy to cold lapp with Mig. If the machine will make a decent weld on 1/4" then you can always make multi-pass weldments on thicker plate.

Items of interest to me:
A Tweco torch. They make about the finest Mig Torch there is. Steel drive rolls. E70s-6 .032 wire is about the best all around wire size for a small/medimum shop. A flowmeter and not a gauge as a flowmeter is more accurate and will last longer. 100%AR gas as then you can also use scratch start Tig for under a $100 with a DC/CC machine.

T_Bone

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Puddles

02-26-2008 04:59:31




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 Re: New welder ? in reply to JeremyR, 02-25-2008 17:59:55  
Hi Jeremy, I�ve never run a Lincoln Mig machine that I can remember. But when it comes to engine drives Lincoln is head & shoulders above the rest. There is just something about the Lincoln arc, way better than Miller. Now shop machines is most likely a different story, I know guys, (actually met) on other forums who are fantastic weldors who own Lincoln shop machines, Tig & Mig and are not happy at all. So here we go, Ford, Chevy, and Dodge!
Far as the taps, here again I�ve never run a machine with taps. My understanding if you�re not an experienced weldor a machine with taps is the way to go, really cuts down on the learning curve. I understand all these little machines come with �door charts� another thing to help with the learning curve.
I personally would never own a machine with taps; I don�t like people telling me what to do, much less a machine! :o) In other words I like complete control over the arc, sometimes when I�m welding the machine is just purring, and I�ll change to a different thickness of steel, or maybe I�m getting tired, or a million other things could change, and I�ll back off a turn or two of voltage, or even add a turn or two, you can not do that with a tapped machine.
Just my opinion! :o)

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jturbo10

02-25-2008 18:37:42




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 Re: New welder ? in reply to JeremyR, 02-25-2008 17:59:55  
I"ve used Lincoln arc welders for years and they have been bullet proof. I have not used any Lincoln MIG welders but have used both Miller and Hobart MIGs...Miller is a better welder but it is also usually more expensive. I currently use a Hobart MIG welder and have been very pleased with the quality of weld and settings. If I did welding for a living I would opt for the Miller but if you only use it weekly I would give the Hobart some consideration if cost is a priority. Check out which welder has the best warranty...that usually gives me a clue about how confident the company is about their products. I just bought another chainsaw for light trimming. The Echo has a 5 year warranty while most of the other chain saws I looked at had one year warranty and some were made in China. I don"t buy any of that Chinese crap and that includes food. JMHO

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Gene Davis Ga.)

02-25-2008 18:48:07




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 Re: New welder ? in reply to jturbo10, 02-25-2008 18:37:42  
Miller owns Hobart now.



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36 coupe

02-27-2008 01:41:12




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 Re: New welder ? in reply to Gene Davis Ga.), 02-25-2008 18:48:07  
Both brands are owned by Illinois Tool Works.Most old companies have been bought out.



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MikeinKy

02-25-2008 18:24:27




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 Re: New welder ? in reply to JeremyR, 02-25-2008 17:59:55  
Don't buy a Lincoln. I had one and it spent more time in the shop than in my shop. I sold it and got a Miller and there is no comparison. The Miller is a lot better. After that I worked for a national welding supply company, and they had so much trouble with Lincoln welders that They would only sell one if the costumer insisted. I have had 2 Millers and a Hobart and they were all good. I wore out the Hobart and got the Lincoln, got rid of it and got a Miller 175 and later upgraded to a 251.

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ramtuff

02-26-2008 15:17:30




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 Re: New welder ? in reply to MikeinKy, 02-25-2008 18:24:27  
Think that's a matter of opinion.I've got 3 lincoln's Bought a new miller mig 4 years ago.Never has been worth a da**. I'm 70 years old used both brands all my life.Lincoln an miller is like comparing ie cream to shi**.Thats my 2 cents worth. Thanks



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36 coupe

02-27-2008 01:44:22




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 Re: New welder ? in reply to ramtuff, 02-26-2008 15:17:30  
I notice all truck mount welders are Millers now.



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