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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Geothermal heating and cooling

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don t-9n180179

02-22-2008 13:25:00




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I just got a refill on the propane. I wish they would have kissed me first. While my 22 y.o 90% effeciency(sp?) furnace still functions, im really gonna start to look into geothermal heat and cooling. Any one that live in a cold-er climate have one? I reside in No. central Illinois, and fear it wont keep my house warm enough in the winter. Thanks for your time.
I do appreciate it.
Have fun..... don t. .....

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Gary from Muleshoe

02-23-2008 06:20:16




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 Re: Geothermal heating and cooling in reply to don t-9n180179, 02-22-2008 13:25:00  
The house we have lived in since 1998 had it installed when we bought it. It is the most cost efficient heating and cooling I have ever had. We live in West Texas, I know it doesn't get nearly as cold as Illinois, but when my neighbors are paying $200 to $300 in gas bills alone and I am still at or around $100 I am well pleased with it. Heats and cools very well, they are rather expensive to install but in the long run the cost is well worth it.

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Gary from Muleshoe

02-23-2008 06:23:15




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 Re: Geothermal heating and cooling in reply to Gary from Muleshoe, 02-23-2008 06:20:16  
I should have added that in the time we have owned this house we have only had one repair bill on our system. Our condenser went out, about $400 to repair it.



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Ohio Case

02-23-2008 05:10:24




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 Re: Geothermal heating and cooling in reply to don t-9n180179, 02-22-2008 13:25:00  
IF you want to find out more info on Geo, go to www.waterfurnace.com They are the premire builder of geothermal heating & cooling equipment.



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Circus

02-23-2008 04:20:22




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 How much $$ ? in reply to don t-9n180179, 02-22-2008 13:25:00  
How much $$ are we talking. Say to replace a 50K furnace and to bury PE line in S.Wis. Doesn't electricity cost twice propane?



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Little Ed

02-23-2008 08:35:13




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 Re: How much $$ ? in reply to Circus, 02-23-2008 04:20:22  
Circus: As far as how much, We built a 1500 sq ft house in late 2005. The bid for a 90+ propane furnace and central air was $4500. We started checking the price of Geo after the regular insulation was installed, so we didn't use the foam type insulation. The average price we received from three different installers was $13,000. We finally found one in Pinkneyville Illinois that put a three ton geo for $9500. This included three 150 foot wells, where others had insisted on trenched loops. The guy that we used would do only drilled wells. Said that made things much simpler. We are in South Central Illinois, and are spending about the same for electricity as before we moved from an old double wide, but we have stopped burning 10 loads of firewood and 700 gal of propane. So we are very pleased with the investment return. It also puts excess heat into the hot water heater. enough so that it was a month before I realised that I had forgot to turn the water heater on after finishing installing it.

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Circus

02-23-2008 15:14:26




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 Right choice in reply to Little Ed, 02-23-2008 08:35:13  
Sound great. I take it it was the double wide that burned 10 loads of firewood and 700 gal of propane. Doubt your new home would use 400 gal of propane.



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schultz47

02-23-2008 03:05:45




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 Re: Geothermal heating and cooling in reply to don t-9n180179, 02-22-2008 13:25:00  
Built house in 2004 in SW Wisconsin - installed geothermal system, 4 ton unit w/1500' of ground loop. Heats and cools house great - highest bill this winter for one month was $130. It runs almost steady when it's below zero outside at night, but heat pump is 400% efficent (sp) the contractor tells me. Drawback was installed price is twice that of propane - but I figured payback at 6 years at 2004 prices. Since the price of propane and fuel oil have went up considerably since then, so payback ~ 4 years?

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runwoolf

02-23-2008 02:25:50




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 Re: Geothermal heating and cooling in reply to don t-9n180179, 02-22-2008 13:25:00  
we have a ground loop system (about 6000 feet) and a two zone heat system (heat pumps) for a 2700 sf house, it works great for us. we are in sw virginia and the house is totally electrical - average bill for the last two years has been $130 per month. That is with two adults full time and kids/grandkids 3-4 times per year. costly to install, but payback time is five years.



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don t.-9n180179

02-23-2008 03:48:06




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 Thank you. in reply to runwoolf, 02-23-2008 02:25:50  
Thanks all. I've had some time since my post to research more. Based upon my very recent propane bill, I could have a "free" system in aprox. 52 months. This does not include any potential cooling cost reduction vs. last summer. Thank you runwoolf for your follow up. I found your past discussions w/T-Bone on this in the archives. Glad to see it worked for you over the long run. If I can, few follow up questions..any part failures or problems? What brand did you go with? Open or closed loop system? Im leaning more towards closed loop. Thanks again for your time.
Have fun....don t. .....

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runwoolf

02-23-2008 08:19:27




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 Re: Thank you. in reply to don t.-9n180179, 02-23-2008 03:48:06  
don,

shoot me an e-mail off fourm and i will give you the details



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don t-9n180179

02-24-2008 03:06:18




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 Re: Thank you. in reply to runwoolf, 02-23-2008 08:19:27  
Thank you for your kind offer for additional info. Email has been sent. Have fun.....don t. .....



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buickanddeere

02-22-2008 19:20:04




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 Re: Geothermal heating and cooling in reply to don t-9n180179, 02-22-2008 13:25:00  
Ain't so.



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Jay (ND)

02-22-2008 19:20:13




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 Re: Geothermal heating and cooling in reply to don t-9n180179, 02-22-2008 13:25:00  
My friend put a 7 ton in this fall. 80 x 40 x 16 building. -30 with 30 mph wind, no problem (radiant floor). No supplement heat.

Look up Langdon, ND. Coldest spot in the nation.



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circus

02-22-2008 18:55:50




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 Re: Geothermal heating and cooling in reply to don t-9n180179, 02-22-2008 13:25:00  
I checked also but realized I had 4 misc furnaces, 2 water heaters and a dryer. Replacing with heat pumps would be five figures. This pdf may be informative http://www.boreal-geothermal.com/pdfmanuals/Air-Water-series.pdf



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2x4

02-22-2008 17:36:37




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 Re: Geothermal heating and cooling in reply to don t-9n180179, 02-22-2008 13:25:00  
I believe geothermal relies on water drawn from the ground circulating thru radiators. Since water temp down there is 55 degrees, thats all the heat coming off of it, so its not gonna help much unless you're in Yellowstone park where the ground water is very hot. Does help cool a lot in hot weather.



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old

02-22-2008 18:35:04




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 Re: Geothermal heating and cooling in reply to 2x4, 02-22-2008 17:36:37  
Heat pumps don't work that way. Its hard to explain but no matter how hot or cold it is there is heat and cold that can be removed and used. A heat pump works sort of like a back wards AC unit. I know my heat pump works just fine and its an air to air unit and heats my house well even if its 0 out side. So then where is the heat in that air if its 0 out side. Believe me its there just that you can't see or feel it

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old

02-22-2008 16:46:54




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 Re: Geothermal heating and cooling in reply to don t-9n180179, 02-22-2008 13:25:00  
Can't say any thing about the geothermal ones but this past summer I got an air to air one and it does just fine. Unless my wife sets the heat and then she likes to turn on the emergy side of the heater which is electric. Electric bills are down by at least 30% if not more



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pair-a-dice farm

02-22-2008 14:43:37




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 Re: Geothermal heating and cooling in reply to don t-9n180179, 02-22-2008 13:25:00  
I'm in NE Arkansas and have geothermal that is about 10 years old. It does a great job cooling but if it gets much below 20 deg. it doesn't seem to work very well. It could be my insulation. It is fairly cheap to operate this winter has been a lot colder than normal and we've only spent about $600 over our normal electric. I know of some people that have spent that much in 1 month in diesel.



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buickanddeere

02-22-2008 14:41:12




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 Re: Geothermal heating and cooling in reply to don t-9n180179, 02-22-2008 13:25:00  
My parents installed a two stage 5 ton Climate Master two years ago. My brother installed the same last year.
Both wish they had installed the systems years ago.
There are no shortcuts on the groundloop size. Too small or improperly installed, a heatpump is an expensive pain.



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504-2

02-22-2008 18:22:42




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 Re: Geothermal heating and cooling in reply to buickanddeere, 02-22-2008 14:41:12  
If you are on REC they should have some good ideas who to talk to in your area and how big a unit you need.



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