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How long are mig tips good for?

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Bill

08-14-2001 12:34:47




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I was just wondering how long mig welding tips are good for. Is there some rule of thumb, like change tip every 2 lb spool of wire or something.

Thanks,
Bill




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Steve U.S. Alloys

08-19-2001 15:36:05




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 Re: How long are mig tips good for? in reply to Bill, 08-14-2001 12:34:47  
I just wanted to add one small thing Bill. The polarity you use will have an effect on tip life too. We can easily notice that on our twin wire arc spray units. Since there are two tips, each having opposing polarities, we see one wear quicker than the other. The negatively charged tip operates at higher temps.



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Steve U.S. Alloys

08-16-2001 06:21:08




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 Re: How long are mig tips good for? in reply to Bill, 08-14-2001 12:34:47  
I certainly can't add much to Marks excellent reply except to say: Tip life can be extended or shortened due to the wire drawing practices of the manufacturer. When manufacturing anything with the main goal being to provide a 'cheaper' product, corners must be cut. One thing that is done in the world of wire maunufacturing is to draw the wire hard and fast. This results in a product that is rough surfaced from gaulding and will definitely take its toll on soft Cu contact tips. Drawing the wire too dry will also have this effect. Large volume users of welding wire notice these things very quickly. The occasional user probably wouldn't. Feeding problems can also be a result of such practices.

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Mark Kw

08-14-2001 14:16:50




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 Re: How long are mig tips good for? in reply to Bill, 08-14-2001 12:34:47  
Till they wear out or are damaged. Heat and spatter can destroy a tip quickly but if everything is good and you use anti-spatter and wire lube, tips can last for upwards of 130# or more of wire. It's not uncommon for mine to run three 44 pound spools of solid wire before they are worn out. Flux core and the type of drive wheels you use will also determine how long they last. If you start getting burn backs or sticking wire in the tip, it's time for a change.

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Branden

08-16-2001 09:51:02




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 Re: Re: How long are mig tips good for? in reply to Mark Kw, 08-14-2001 14:16:50  
Holy smokes Mark!! You are the first Guy I've ever heard of that can run that much wire without replacing the tip. Typically the wire should always have a tight fit in the tip itself. If it is a little loose to really loose, you will short out the grounding circuit. That wire should be in contact with the "contact tip" at all times!! That little tip is what completes the grounding circuit. If you get a lot of popping while welding..... or during your arc starts, unless your machine is set up wrong, chances are, your tip needs to be changed. I pay around .30 cents a piece for tips on my Tregaskiss guns, and in my shop where 2 of the guns get heavy use, typically 8-10 hour shift, they get replaced anywhere from once or more per day, to once a week. A lot depends on the experience of the welder, the amperage, welding position, type of wire, and even the shielding gas. At .30 cents a piece, that is cheap insurance for making sure that your equipment won't introduce porosity into your welds. I know the welder himself can, but a worn out tip can just as easy. It amazes me how some people think that an oversized tip for aluminum welding,(( to prevent bird nesting,)) or a worn out tip, ((worn out in my opinion, like NEW in thiers,)) won't effect a weld. If you stand there and say to yourself, "but I just got this tip, it can't be worn out already," think again. Why do you think that tips are also considered comsumables???? I personally know several CWI's who share my point of view, even to the point of saying AND REQUIRING tip changes before each shift, or day of mig and or flux welding. I have yet to meet a CWI who says that all this is unnecessary or that I am wasting money. In my opinion, the tip on a mig welder is the most important part on that machine.

Branden

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Mark Kw

08-17-2001 09:07:20




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 Re: Re: Re: How long are mig tips good for? in reply to Branden, 08-16-2001 09:51:02  
A little flaming is good and I can handle that but you should slow down a bit before you go off and ask some questions first.

I know I don't post much here, in spurts when I have time so it's obvious that you probably don't know me too well. Let's get things clear for you.

I run my own business. I build and repair standard and custom industrial equipment, on/off road trucks, trailers and heavy equipment. I also deal with things such as pumps, boilers, compressors and electrical equipment. Single field specialists can't stay in business here for very long because this place sucks for work. You have to diverse and able to do what other's can't or you won't survive.

I've been doing this for far too many years now. I guess I must like it because I'm still doing it. That remains a mystery to me as well?

I take great pride in my work and my equipment. My shop my look like a mess but my equipment is clean and well maintained. My work is done right the first time and the proof of this is seeing it out there making money for people every day without problems.

I am the only one who touches my equipment so there is not dealing with employees who only care about doing as little as possible and getting the most money for it.

I have no problem running two 66# coils of solid wire through a single mig tip (Miller 64 series feeder and Tweco Eliminator gun w/ cam-lock tips) HOWEVER, this does depend on lots of things. Clean work. Quality wire. Clean welding equipment. Wire lube. Correct settings. I have put tips in and had a burn back on the first touch of the trigger, new tip again and try once more.

Now, let me ask you some questions. If you require a new tip at the start of the shift and the employee has a burn back 10 minutes into the shift, does he keep using the same tip without you knowing? Does he care if the wire is clean and the proper drive rollers are used and set up correctly? Does he even know how to set the drive rolls or even what ones should be used with the wire in the machine?

It's a whole different world when you deal with production shops and employees. As for the CWI's there are very few that I have came across that truely know their business. Many have never run a bead in their life. They know the process but can't preform it themselves. Not all but most are like this. From my many years of working job sites, I saw far too many CWI's and supposed engineers that could not solve the most simplest of problems. This is not opinion, just fact of experience. Have you ever looked at some of the work passed by CWI's? I have, when I was fixing it many times. I have to deal with CWI's and engineers a lot in my work. I also deal with the EPA, MSHA, OSHA and other such agencies on a regular basis. Some of these people actually scare me and make me wonder how they ever got where they are to begin with. Others really know thier business and are excellent to work with/for.

How can you justify a new tip at the start of every shift? What if the off going op just changed it ten minutes ago? What if the on coming op screws it up ten minutes into the shift? The cost of the tip has nothing to do with how often it is replaced. My cam locks run about $1.80 each but that does not stop me from tossing it the first time I burn it or it shows some sign of wear or loss of contact. If it's fine and working properly, why throw it away? That would be the same as throwing away the bearings from an engine just because they have 50,000 miles on them. It's nothing more than foolishness caused by lack of properly determining the facts of the conditions. Jumping blind if you will.

You can have all the CWI's and engineers in the world working a job or a shop but it ain't gonna do you dang bit of good if you have a bunch of improperly trained employees doing the work. CWI's look at the finished work, the welder looks at the work in progress. If the welder does not know if he/she is making a good weld or not, the outside may not tell the who story. I have seen welds passed by CWI's that looked perfect on the outside yet there was no nit to the base metal and the weld failed. It is far better to have a known good welder making a joint than it is to find out the joint is bad after it is done.

This is even more critical out in the field. More often than not you are battling environmental conditions. If you take a welder that does not know what he's really doing and put him into a situation where things cannot be made perfect, is he going to make a good weld joint? Probably not. Same situation with a good welder and you'll get a good joint every time no matter what the conditions are. If it ain't right during the process, the welder is going to know it and fix it without having someone looking over his shoulder telling him what to do. Experience and training go hand in hand with quality people. Without these ingredients working together you won't get quality work and it does not matter if it's a welding shop or a widget making plant.

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jim

08-17-2001 23:15:49




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: How long are mig tips good for? in reply to Mark Kw, 08-17-2001 09:07:20  
don"t take it so personel,it's his thirty cents. i think evey one by now knows what an expert you are in many varied fields by now.



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Mark Kw

08-18-2001 20:16:02




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How long are mig tips good for? in reply to jim , 08-17-2001 23:15:49  
Jim, I don't claim to be an expert in anything. When I have an opinion or known fact to offer, I post it. If I have nothing valid to say, I keep quiet. It's nothing about the 30 cents but rather the attitude Branden took toward me and about CWI's. I just had to respond to what I took as soft flaming from him to set the record strait, nothing more.



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David

08-17-2001 13:31:25




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: How long are mig tips good for? in reply to Mark Kw, 08-17-2001 09:07:20  
Mark KW, I just wanted to take a moment and say...

"WELL SAID!"

Although I am in another field, I have preached what you just typed many times. But they never understand!!!



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