Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Attention Forum Users: On the 28th of December 2023 at 9:00am Central Time, we will be taking the forums down for maintenance while we prepare the new forums for your use. Please click here for more information.

Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Mig welders, (Old School)!

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Puddles

02-21-2008 11:40:46




Report to Moderator

You just got to love those Mig machines. I have a Linde VI-206 it must be at least 20-years old! I paid $300.00 for it at an auction. When it dies I have no idea what I�ll replace it with. 1st picture is of the machine!
2nd picture is a vertical up hill weld made with .035 Lincoln L-56 wire. Had to start out with the gun pointing down to get down in the heel of the W-shapes. It was kind of tuff to get a real good tie in on the inside leg of the weld on the 4 1/2-inch diameter gooseneck tube. third party image
third party image third party image

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
dr sportster

02-22-2008 07:40:43




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mig welders, (Old School)! in reply to Puddles, 02-21-2008 11:40:46  
Nice.Its hard to just draw a line that straight.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Mort Adella

02-22-2008 06:40:12




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mig welders, (Old School)! in reply to Puddles, 02-21-2008 11:40:46  
Hey, I certified (GMAW) with welds like that.


Of course last weeks rusty boat trailer scab over repair using 6011 stick looked nothing at all like that



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
HeyPigFarmer

02-21-2008 17:34:11




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mig welders, (Old School)! in reply to Puddles, 02-21-2008 11:40:46  
I wish I could weld like that. A good weld is a beautiful thing, but is not what most farmers put on their equipment. It amazes me that in this day and age that everything is supposed to be getting better it still seems that those old welders do ten times the job of the newer ones.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
jim1650

02-21-2008 16:11:47




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mig welders, (Old School)! in reply to Puddles, 02-21-2008 11:40:46  
i have tyried the esab and it is not as good ,i bet the linde will last along time we when to a miller 250 still not as good jim just me lol



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Puddles

02-21-2008 16:25:17




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mig welders, (Old School)! in reply to jim1650, 02-21-2008 16:11:47  
Jim I heard the Miller 250 was a huge mistake! Miller went right back to the drawing board, and came out with the 251. So far everything I�ve wanted for my Linde, (far as drive rolls) No problem, local welding supply can get them in 1-day. I was told their only problem was the gasket to the gearbox on the Mig 31 wire feed liked to leak. I check the oil level every so often, but so far no leaks. If any major problems I hope I can still get parts. I love that little machine!

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
trucker40

02-21-2008 16:04:00




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mig welders, (Old School)! in reply to Puddles, 02-21-2008 11:40:46  
Like they say a pictures worth a thousand words.I especially like the uphill. I started out welding structural,never grind anything you dont have to.Later I got a job stretching truck frames,all the welds had to be uphill,with Mig or 7018,ground flush,not gouged in,then most usually a sleeve on the outside.Thats the way the old man that showed me how to do it wanted it,and thats where I heard that it makes a weld stronger to grind it off.None of them ever broke.In structural steel it would take forever to grind all of those welds in a skyscraper,however I have seen plans that said grind welds flush except clean and paint would do what the welders didnt get done.Same place I worked at made handrails,which is where I started and all of those welds were ground flush even if they were perfect.Later they built a shot blast machine and it was to clean the rust and slag off the welds and it would peen the welds too. Now if you see some of those shows where they make motorcycles they Tig weld perfect,grind smooth,then cover with body putty?Thats the way they do Hot Rods too.I guess it makes a lot of difference what you are trying to accomplish,and how you want it to look when you get done.If you are building a tractor it might look better if you grind the welds off on the hood or block when you get done,I guess it wont make it run any better though.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
135 Fan

02-21-2008 16:21:35




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mig welders, (Old School)! in reply to trucker40, 02-21-2008 16:04:00  
I've seen spec's say to grind the weld flush but I don't think it was for stress relieving. If a weld is too high can create a notch effect at the edge. Usually about the thickness of a dime is considered the ultimate strength with just slight reinforcement. I've rarely seen TIG welds ground. A good TIG weld is a work of art. If someone has to put body putty on any weld, I'd bet it wasn't the best weld in the first place. TIG welded bycicles look cool. Hand rails are usually ground. Maybe so the paint stays on better or to elimate any slight roughness when someone grabs it? Guess it depends on the job? Dave

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Puddles

02-21-2008 16:18:15




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mig welders, (Old School)! in reply to trucker40, 02-21-2008 16:04:00  
Hi trucker40, I never once took a structural plate test where I was allowed to use a grinder. 6-G pipe test yes. Small % of my work required X-ray; the critical joints were UT�ed on the whole. We used grinders, and wire wheels all the time for cleanup, between passes, and joint prep. The one picture I posted of the derrick holding the 10-foot diameter pipe with snow on the ground. I wasn�t welding there, I was the supervisor. These pipe were all 100 % X-ray. Some of those pipes were spliced 3 and four times. Driven over 200-feet deep in the Columbia River in Oregon, just down river from the Bonneville dam.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
trucker40

02-22-2008 09:42:11




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mig welders, (Old School)! in reply to Puddles, 02-21-2008 16:18:15  
I never did anything like that.Always worked in a shop.I did run a Tig machine a little,but it was just like a Mig with flux core wire.That was more than 30 years ago.When I took a welding test I used a grinder and a air powered chipping hammer regular chipping hammer.As for grinding welds,In the 3 years I worked at one shop they got a job to make a real big I beam.It had a 5 foot web.It was more of an experiment than anything else.Im not an engineer anyway.It was long ago but as I remember it making that 5 foot long weld it would crack using 7024.Not being an engineer I dont know why,but if you grind it off it wouldnt crack.There are lots of things that they wanted the welds ground on,and a bunch more they didnt want welds ground on.Most of the stuff was real big,thick metal.Lots and lots of beams with 1 inch thick web.We even made I beams that couldnt be bought anywhere that they ran cranes on them and had thick flanges to hold the weight.Lots of build up welds with 7018 and mig.The Tig I ran would weld an inch deep and an inch wide in one pass.It was many years ago,that company is not even in business now.I wasnt the best welder they had,those were on the erection crews.I could hold my own with most of the shop welders though.There were only 10 out of 50 or more that they tested for uphill.In a shop you have a lot of different people doing a lot of necessary but different jobs.Some of them arent going to make multiple pass 7018 welds,some of them arent going to uphill weld at all.Some of them arent going to get their feet off of the floor.I was always on top of something welding,or inside of something welding,or even teaching new guys how to weld a few times.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
T_Bone

02-21-2008 21:07:25




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mig welders, (Old School)! in reply to Puddles, 02-21-2008 16:18:15  
Hi guys,

AWS says you can use any tool in the test booth that your craft would normaly use in the field for making in place weldments.

What normaly happens on the jobs that I've been on is you can NOT use a grinder in the test booth without premission from the weld Inspector. The inspector will look at the weld to see if "he'll" approve of the grinder use. I will almost always deny such requests as our goal is to see the ability of the weldor to over come common obsticles in the field.

Only on special requests from the employer, (I need certified weldors, PERIOD) will I allow grinder use. I have also went as far as putting another weldor in the test booth just to clam the nerves down of a tester so he will pass. That is legal according too AWS rules but that very rarely ever happens.

As too grinding weldments for stress relief. That really won't have any stress effect on the completed weldment. I've Tig welded 24ga SS SM and use a steel hammer with a back-up dolly for that.

What a hammer does is slightly stretch the weld face to remove surface tension that was created during the weld process. This works well for SM and heavier plate betwen each pass other than the cover pass on multi-pass weldments. This method is rarely spec'd tho. Usually a experienced weldor will know when a weldment needs this and usually mostly caused from a poor joint design.

I designed a SS shaker for seperating french fries that used a sub-frame made out of 4x2x1/4 304 SS tubing with a bed made from 16g 304 SS dimpled SM. It would shake at the rate of 900bpm(beats per minute) and would work harden in a years time. Even the frame was scrap after a years use. The scrap metal wasn't fit for anything other than the melting pot as the viberations totaly distroyed the metal grains.

T_Bone

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Puddles

02-22-2008 03:54:05




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mig welders, (Old School)! in reply to T_Bone, 02-21-2008 21:07:25  
�The inspector will look at the weld to see if "he'll" approve of the grinder use�

I had this happen to me one time. I had to take an X-ray Innershield 1-inch plate test for the Navy, (can�t remember the wire #). When I got to the testing facility the only booth open had a water-cooled gun, (what a club) I had to run horizontal, vertical, and overhead. The gun didn�t bother me on the horizontal or vertical, but on the overhead I had to stop and clean the cup out after every pass. The last pass on the cover a big glob of spatter attached it�s self to the wire and went right into the weld puddle. I stopped tried to knock it off with a chipping hammer, but was not good enough. I went and found the inspector. Once I explained what happened and he looked at it, he brought me a grinder to clean it up, and also watched how I did it. He called the job site that afternoon to let me know I passed. :o)

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
135 Fan

02-21-2008 13:23:58




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mig welders, (Old School)! in reply to Puddles, 02-21-2008 11:40:46  
As I said before, you are a true craftsman who takes pride in their work! I see you also use the common practice of tacking with 6010 for lighter stuff. Anyone could learn a lot from you! What's your opinion on grinding a good weld to stress relieve it? I've never heard of that before. I have heard of peening cast iron to relieve stress though. Maybe you should take up photography? Outstanding workmanship!!! You are an artist! I envy your incredible talent and attention to detail! Dave

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Puddles

02-21-2008 14:24:23




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mig welders, (Old School)! in reply to 135 Fan, 02-21-2008 13:23:58  
Thanks Dave!
I�ve heard of grinding to relieve stress, but I�ve never done it, never seen it on a set of drawings either! I was brought up old school, (�we don�t need no stinking grinders�) LOL :o)
Now peening welds, been there done that! In the 70�s I worked in a fab shop building nuclear waste tanks. The tanks were 8-feet in diameter, and 8-feet tall. We laminated 3/4-inch sheets of steel. Depending on the material going inside the tank determined how many sheets of steel, and how many sheets of lead. The sheets of steel were rolled to somewhat the correct diameter, (sometimes we had to heat shrink them) in two halves. When we made the vertical splice we had the proper radius gauge right with us, we peened the weld as needed to maintain the proper radius!

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
135 Fan

02-21-2008 15:06:49




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mig welders, (Old School)! in reply to Puddles, 02-21-2008 14:24:23  
I always thought that to stress relieve steel, you had to heat it up to the lower critical temperature? and hold it there for a period of time, based on the size, and then slowly cool it in a controlled atmosphere, but I could be mistaken. I'll bet you could care less what anyone thinks of your welding abilities? Good or bad? Perhaps this might be a good time to clear something up. I learned how to weld from the best of the best. My teacher wanted to help get more people into the trade because of the huge demand for good welders. He obtained his teaching degree but took a huge decrease in pay. He had pressure tickets and qualifications through the ying/yang! The last job he worked on was as a senior foreman and welder on a little project Bechtel was working on. You might have heard of it? The 12 billion dollar initial investment Mildred Lake oil sands operation known as the Syncrude Canada Oil Sands operation! The largest in the world! He said it took 1/2 an hour to walk from one end of the shop to the other! You can check out their website but here's a few interesting facts; 43 million field work hours to complete.
10,300 people employed at peak production.
The 3 camps served up to 27,000 meals a day!
Every 24 hours enough metal is worn off the mining equipment to produce 2 pick up trucks!
It's recognized as 1 of the top 10 engineering achievements in Canada!
I learned probably 80% of what I know from my high school teacher! I'm pretty sure that safety and proper procedures were of utmost importance on a mega billion dollar project like Syncrude? If I seem to get perturbed when someone doesn't want to accept my logic, it's because I think they're saying I learned from a hack. I never studied at technical school and perhaps I should have. I only got an 89% on my final exam and 91% on my Interprovincial ticket, that's good for all of Canada. I eventually got my B-Pressure ticket, which my teacher said is Internationally accepted as one of the best. He should know? Am I the best welder? Not even close! I do know what I'm talking about though. If someone wants my opinion from now on, they can ask for it. In the mean time, I'm sure Puddles could teach more than you'll ever need. I know a professional when I see one! Sorry for the long post. It was important to me. Dave

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Puddles

02-21-2008 15:51:58




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mig welders, (Old School)! in reply to 135 Fan, 02-21-2008 15:06:49  
99.9 % of my stress relieving experience was extremely primitive, and on cast steel pile driving attachments out in the middle of a bay. I / we would preheat; make our repairs using �Super Missile Weld� rod or 312-stainless steel. At best we would wrap the item with insulation, build a tent with a heater in the tent, and let cool overnight! Real caveman like.
Dave this is what I did for a living. third party image
third party image
third party image

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
jim1650

02-21-2008 13:03:17




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mig welders, (Old School)! in reply to Puddles, 02-21-2008 11:40:46  
look like u have it tuned right in and running nice aren't the linde 206 va great machine
jim



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Puddles

02-21-2008 14:33:13




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mig welders, (Old School)! in reply to jim1650, 02-21-2008 13:03:17  
Hi Jim, yes they are! I�d buy another one in a New York second. I have no idea what I�ll buy next; I�ve heard good things about the ESAB 250, and the Thermal Arc Fabricator 281. ESAB bought Linde, I wonder if they learned anything from Linde?



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy