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Furnace Repair RIPOFFS!

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Glenn FitzGeral

02-20-2008 19:34:27




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I do most of my own repair work as do most of us on this board. However, a few times I have had my furnace repaired by local companies. In the process I have developed a short list of companies that are little short of criminal in their dealings. I have yet to have a tech work on a furnace and not condemn it, requiring me to sign them off of any possible liability.

I will not go into detail, but I could fill pages with the LIES I've been told. I'm tempted to list a couple names of companies here in our community as I think they deserve the publicity, but I'll restrain myself!

Let's just say I'm in the process of filling out the necessary paperwork in reporting my most recent encounter to the Wisconsin Department of Consumer Protection.

Why is this field so full of crooks? They certainly feed on people's fears...seem to think some of were just born yesterday.

Any of you have similar experiences...?


Glenn F.

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greygoat

02-22-2008 07:37:52




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 Re: Furnace Repair RIPOFFS! in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 02-20-2008 19:34:27  
Thanks El Toro, yes, thats the one. I keep a new
one by the furnace also



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PJH

02-21-2008 17:59:47




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 Re: Furnace Repair RIPOFFS! in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 02-20-2008 19:34:27  
We've got a good one here in Southern Illinois. Del Klien from Chester Illinois. I've had him here at the house for a new AC and humidifier installation, and he's installed two new furnaces in our church. He actually charged the church LESS than he bid, even though we added some work to the order. I guess from reading the other posts that Del's a rare bird. He's a fine guy.



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Gary from Muleshoe

02-21-2008 17:16:15




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 Re: Furnace Repair RIPOFFS! in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 02-20-2008 19:34:27  
Glen I have a step-son that is an HVAC service man in San Antonio. The company he works for encourages them to find reasons to condemn units or do repairs that really are not required. He is always getting chewed out because he refuses to do business that way. Not all of them are crooks but it does seem to be that way. My step-son is hoping to find a job else where soon.



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cb in wisc.

02-21-2008 09:03:24




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 Re: Furnace Repair RIPOFFS! in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 02-20-2008 19:34:27  
When my furnace was first installed they did so with jet orfices that were sized for natural gas, even though I had lp. I called the company and they made the change over for free, waranty work. Since then I have switched to a outdoor wood burner and don't use the furnace at all and elimnated the need for so called "service work".



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greygoat

02-21-2008 08:46:29




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 Re: Furnace Repair RIPOFFS! in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 02-20-2008 19:34:27  
The blower motor on my Amana gas furnace quit, on a Sunday morning. I called a local dealer, who was
mad cause he hadn't sold me the furnace (the
dealer who had, had died, and the business died
with him)So he asked if I wanted a service call, at Sunday rates. No, I only wanted the motor. Well
he already had someone at the shop, so wouldn't charge me for opening on Sunday. I got the motor
and almost died when the guy said $175. I knew
that it shouldn't cost that much, but had no heat,
so bought it and put it in. On Monday, I checked with GRAINGER, and that same motor-same exact
part number, was $74.95. They also want $49 for
a thermo thing that ignites the gas, I found the
same part number from GRAINGER for $14.95. Thats
where they were getting them, and, Thankfully, the
service guy was too dumb to rip the tag off of
the box. I'm learning to repair electric motors
now, so I won't need those service vultures. I
can get Dayton motor parts from Graingers. Does anyone know of a good general source for electric
motor parts?

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El Toro

02-21-2008 15:08:31




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 Re: Furnace Repair RIPOFFS! in reply to greygoat, 02-21-2008 08:46:29  
third party image

My neighbor had no heat and he called a serviceman
and he charged him around $200.00. I think it was on a Sunday too and it was a bad ignitor. My neighbor showed me the old ignitor and I told him I was going to buy a spare since we have the same furnace in case I had that problem. They cost $13.00 plus tax. He told me to pickup a spare for him. I still have mine sitting on a shelf near the furnace. Here's a picture. Hal

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T_Bone

02-21-2008 21:25:33




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 Re: Furnace Repair RIPOFFS! in reply to El Toro, 02-21-2008 15:08:31  
Hi guys,

I know the price seams high but just think the service company has to warrant the electric parts as the supplier will generaly not take them back for warranty and trying to get a mfg to warranty parts takes an act from GOD.

Even Sunday prices are more higher to the company. I've had to pay $50 extra 20yrs ago for a compressor supplier to open his doors for me and the compressor cost was also 50% more than normal. We did about $175k worth of bizz with that supplier a year.

T_Bone

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Dave Sherburne NY

02-21-2008 07:09:00




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 Re: Furnace Repair RIPOFFS! in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 02-20-2008 19:34:27  
Had a new library built in town about 4 yrs ago
They took the bid of the lowest co. for heating system. Put in two boilers and told them to alternate winters on using them. The lib pres.
takes care of that. He thought they should be serviced every year so called a local co. to come
service them not the guy who does mine nor the
local expert good guy who won't even look at them because he says that wasn't the system they need and
he didn't get the bid. So the co. he called sends 2
guys they service it in the summer, and the when
they turn it on in the fall, it blew out the chimney from the boiler to the roof.

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tech4

02-21-2008 06:44:47




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 Re: Furnace Repair RIPOFFS! in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 02-20-2008 19:34:27  
That is a problem with a lot of the service business. As has been mentioned many of the techs are either un-trained or just plain don't care. They make a service call and never have the right parts on the truck even when they know the problem and possible parts needed. If they charge you by the hour and parts tried then soon the cost is the same as the new unit.
Also many of the companies will not service a gas furnace beyond the guarantee period of the heat exchanger because of the liability. It is hard to detect a cracked heat exchanger or when it will crack and if you or your family get killed by carbon monoxide after a service call there will be law suits.

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IH2444

02-21-2008 07:14:20




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 Re: Furnace Repair RIPOFFS! in reply to tech4, 02-21-2008 06:44:47  
Anyone that has a gas furnace should have CO detectors.



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Mike M

02-21-2008 05:56:21




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 Re: Furnace Repair RIPOFFS! in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 02-20-2008 19:34:27  
Must be a nationwide conspiracy ? because Mom got ripped off too. Dad didn't have time right then to look at it so she called the service people. This is a propane one in a fairly new double wide. Not a high effiency one though. They tell her it's junk and sell her a NEW furnace ! and she went along with it ! Next couple of days Dad gets to take a look at the old furnace and all it had wrong was a thermo coupling. Mom ended up getting her money back and her old furnace put back in after getting ahold of the main owner of the company and complaining.

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El Toro

02-21-2008 07:30:29




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 Re: Furnace Repair RIPOFFS! in reply to Mike M, 02-21-2008 05:56:21  
Dateline on NBC has aired shows showing these ripoffs by repairman. They should have their license pulled when they ripoff a customer. I had a problem on a new gas furnace installation
in 1992. He couldn't get the furnace to work in extreme cold weather and he installed a smaller BTU furnace than what was in the contract. I file
a civil suit against him and he tried to offer money. I told him I wanted a new furnace and that's what I got with no problems. It pays to keep those contracts. He went out of business too. Hal

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cj3b_jeep

02-21-2008 05:01:57




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 Re: Furnace Repair RIPOFFS! in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 02-20-2008 19:34:27  
I had the same issue with my hot water tank. The main brain of the thing was a problem right from the start. Found out it was covered under warranty, parts only, but they would not give me the part as it was available to licensed plumbers only. "Free part" would have cost $200 to put in. My brother-in-law does heating and cooling and managed to get the part for me. It's pretty much all a big scam. I don't mind people staying in business, but I figure repair men are for people who have no clue what they are doing.

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El Toro

02-21-2008 05:25:59




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 Re: Furnace Repair RIPOFFS! in reply to cj3b_jeep, 02-21-2008 05:01:57  
I have one of those Sears Survivor gas fired water heaters and it's 16 years old, but I had problems with it when new. It has electronic ignition and has a circulating pump and they have been replaced several times, but I bought a service policy for about $30.00 a year since those parts are very expensive. The tank is all fiberglass and you have to be extra careful when
around the water lines. Hal

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lucas boy

02-21-2008 04:52:14




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 Re: Furnace Repair RIPOFFS! in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 02-20-2008 19:34:27  
our local hvac guys wont fix anything anymore.they just want to replace the whole system. my neighbor has a25 year old system that got a leak in the condensing coil when it was 104 degrees outside.he had 6 companies over and they all refused to fix the leak because it may leak into the atmosphere,but they all added freon so it would work a little whie,knowing it would leak into the air.he didnt have 5000.00 for a new system.. i finally went to napa and got a ac compression fitting and cut the line at the leak and put it in.vacumed it and charged it.it worked all summer.. the new epa rules have made the hvac tecs overpriced and arrogant . i agree that in my area they are ripoff artists... lucas

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jose bagge

02-21-2008 04:40:26




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 Re: Furnace Repair RIPOFFS! in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 02-20-2008 19:34:27  
Service businesses need to be built on relationships....I meet with a group of Christian businessmen on Tuesday mornings for coffee and BS, and tend to give these guys my personal business as well as company business.
As I've grown to know more folks involved in various trades, I feel better about who I'm dealing with.
Don't misunderstand this- my screen name is a joke and I am NOT hispanic- but if it were not for the Hispanics in this area nothing would get built and nothing would get fixed! Learning spanish would probably get me a much deeper deal, and probably open the door for a ton of "side jobs". White kids (my own included) out here have NO desire to do anything for a living but pound on a keyboard. I would hire 30 entry level mechanics today at $65k a year minimum if only I could find 'em!

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T_Bone

02-21-2008 04:23:19




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 Re: Furnace Repair RIPOFFS! in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 02-20-2008 19:34:27  
Hi Glenn,

I think the biggest problem comes from the market won't bear what it costs to train qualifed repair techs.

If the companys can charge enough to stay in business then you have the unqualified techs go out on there own and undercut the company they were working for.

That causes the 1st company to drop there prices to compete for business thus the cycle starts all over again.

Even in residential appliances it takes alot of continous schooling just to keep up with changing technology. The employer doesn't want to pay for it as well as the homeowner doesn't want to pay for it so alot of companys won't train there techs very well.

When I was managing service techs, we figured if we hired a tech with a 70% completion ratio, that's 70% of the jobs that were repaired correct the first time out, then we had a good tech. That's sad.

Even at my best I was running a 97% ratio with most of the 3% being bad new parts and less than 1% being my mistakes. In order to accomplish that, I was putting in 60hr/wks and getting paid for 40hrs. The 20hrs was the extra studying I had to do to be able to keep the 97% ratio. After a few years of that, I went back to a job that paid 40hr/wk for 40hrs of work. I just couldn't find a employer willing to to pay for that schooling and you can't blame them as they can't bill the customer for the schooling either. I was not going to do a half a$$ job tho when I knew better.

Your lucky that you can find someone that can work on the older systems. Most of the kids out of tech school are parts replacers, not service techs. The mfg's are the blame for that one as they want to sell you a new unit, not repair the old unit. Were lucky that we have a law that requires them to furnish parts for 7yrs.

As to dishonest companys, it's in every type of repair biz. The best you can do is pay by credit card, keep the old part and throw it away yourself and report the bad company's. If you think the HVAC industry is bad, go get a puter repaired and you'll change your mind in a hurry.

T_Bone

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JohnnnnD

02-22-2008 05:59:59




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 Re: Furnace Repair RIPOFFS! in reply to T_Bone, 02-21-2008 04:23:19  
Well, you probably have a point, but Im not going to be thankful for getting screwed.



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dhermesc

02-21-2008 12:20:36




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 Re: Furnace Repair RIPOFFS! in reply to T_Bone, 02-21-2008 04:23:19  
"I think the biggest problem comes from the market won't bear what it costs to train qualifed repair techs."


Best responce on the subject. Your best chance is to go with an owner/operator and even then its hit and miss. They can't afford to pay the techs to do what they do for themselves for free.



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Spook

02-21-2008 18:33:26




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 Re: Furnace Repair RIPOFFS! in reply to dhermesc, 02-21-2008 12:20:36  
I was surprised a couple of years ago, a service guy doing warranty work on a Maytag washer and dryer told me he was making $14 per hour. And had been at it for 12 years. The company does all kinds of appliance repair, and heating and cooling. Not a lot of money for a lot of different repairs. Service economy wages.



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dhermesc

02-22-2008 07:16:40




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 Re: Furnace Repair RIPOFFS! in reply to Spook, 02-21-2008 18:33:26  
"Not a lot of money for a lot of different repairs. Service economy wages."

That's what happens when imports from China make replacement cheaper than repair.



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dave2

02-21-2008 01:21:10




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 Re: Furnace Repair RIPOFFS! in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 02-20-2008 19:34:27  
Because I bought a used system and installed everything myself (plumbing, radiators, etc) the heating people won't touch it (will but no gaurantee). Had a local guy come on his own time and show me everything that I needed to do to maintain and gave me a collection of possibles for my model and told me to get a couple of gages for adjustments and showed me how to use them. So far so good.

Dave

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2x4

02-20-2008 21:54:16




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 Re: Furnace Repair RIPOFFS! in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 02-20-2008 19:34:27  
Search for Angie's List. It is a list of local companies that local people have reported on, good or bad. Angie has ads on Nat'l Public Radio. You can make your report at her website.



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old

02-20-2008 21:21:58




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 Re: Furnace Repair RIPOFFS! in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 02-20-2008 19:34:27  
Shoot now days about 75% of company s are like that or sure seem to be. Take your car in to have it repaired and they slap you with a bill for parts they don't replace. Or get a guy to look at this or that at your home and just to have them drive 10 miles and do nothing cost you $100. Honest people are no more its all about making a buck and who cares if its right or wrong. Even the cops are in on it.

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Bob Huntress

02-20-2008 21:36:22




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 Re: Furnace Repair RIPOFFS! in reply to old, 02-20-2008 21:21:58  
When I am deployed, or so, and my wife has to have someone come out, I don't think it dishonest to have a reasonable cost for them to come out to look at things. We live out in the county, but they don't tell my wife about the cost to come look at it until they are at our place, when they tell her she already owes it, since they are here. I don't expect companies to work for free, but I expect them to be reasonable, and honest.

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Bob Huntress

02-20-2008 21:13:50




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 Re: Furnace Repair RIPOFFS! in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 02-20-2008 19:34:27  
Nearly every air conditioning failure is electric, yet every repairman that ever goes to look at your unit will tell you that you need to charge your system with refrigerant. Many times simply cleaning the condenser will fix the problem, if you're not getting enough cooling, or heating if you are using a heat pump. The industrys worst case comes more from ignorance than dishonesty, though. In the hermetic unit is an internal thermal protection that shuts down the unit. Sometimes it has been known to take days for this safty to cool off and reset. In most cases, the repair man will sell the customer a new unit, claiming that the old one is has an open in the hermetic electrical system, when all that needs to happen is to wait for the Klixon to cool off. If you are told that your system needs to be replaced, wait for a few days, before you do, if you can. Believe me, it is tough, on that one, since your readings will show that the hermetic compressor is bad, due to an open line, and you can't simply open the hermetic compressor to verify that it isn't the problem. If the Klixon is external to the compressor, it can be checked, but many are internal.

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Dave F.

02-21-2008 10:54:31




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 Re: Furnace Repair RIPOFFS! in reply to Bob Huntress, 02-20-2008 21:13:50  
Bob, Know what you mean, Had this lady at our church who was taking care of an elderly lady. That her AC. quit working. I go out to check it out. Get there the compressor was dead but so hot you could cook on it. Ask the lady's son if they have a garden hose. Guy looked at me like I was crazy? Trickled water on compressor for 20 min. & had a glass of tea heard overload click back in. turn breaker back on compressor came back on. Next question why? did the over load trip. check temperture at vents took a peak at the evaporator Icing up. which told me system low on freon, compressor relylies (sp) on vapor for cooling it. put gage set on measured out proper charge. all is well. charge lady $20.00 did I rip her off. I don't think so. I just hope when I get old that someone will help me out. Dave F.

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s.crum

02-20-2008 21:06:11




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 Re: Furnace Repair RIPOFFS! in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 02-20-2008 19:34:27  
I haven't had a "professional" furnace repair person touch my 3 furnaces in over 20 years. A local company screwed my Burnam boiler and Beckett burner up the first year it was in and filled the house with black sooty smoke. Got it going good myself and Beckett was kind enough to send me the service manuals for my burner. I also got a manual for my Thermalgard burner. Now I keep all 3 furnaces cruising right along burning clean and efficient. Anyone who would expect an oil company to set a furnace up to run at it's most efficent to conserve fuel, must indeed be a fool. I keep the repair parts on hand from motors, primaries, nozzles to transformers. All these parts new cost less than one service call. Next big project will be a large solid fuels fired boiler out in the yard to heat all 3 buildings.

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Bendee

02-20-2008 20:24:39




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 Re: Furnace Repair RIPOFFS! in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 02-20-2008 19:34:27  
A little restraint..I wouldn't be naming any particular company as a crook otherwise you might be slapped with a law suit,



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jbruce

02-20-2008 21:43:25




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 Re: Furnace Repair RIPOFFS! in reply to Bendee, 02-20-2008 20:24:39  
Old propane furness works 19 yrs with no service calls. Buy a new double wide and since we own our tank we get propane heat. Seventh winter it gets so it will light for a minute and go out. Call first name in phone book and guy comes out with two young fellows. Says the heat exchanger is pluged and tells the boys to take it out in the yard and clean it. They rip off the trim and stare at it the rest of the day. Next day they bring some chimney sweep and set it on fire. Decide the fire is out and bring in a vacuam cleaner and proceed to set it on fire in my living room turning room black. Go home. I get a piece of half inch cable and fuzz the end and force it thru the pipes while wife turns it with vise grips. Next day they come back and I have them run the cable thru again and vacuam it out again. Boss shows up and puts meter on and says we need new control. Goes home and don't hear from him again. Call the factory to order new control and man says furnace man has to order it. I'm a little perturbed and when I get done talking he sends me a new crontrol and burner- no charge. Works rest of winter. Next winter same thing so call another furnace place and the man says no problem but we don't have the part with us. Next day another man shows up says boss says this is no good brand of furnace so need to replace it. Fine bring me a new one. Few days later another furnace man says all you needed was a air control valve. I get a bill for 500 dollars. I tell him don't think I owe for staring at thing two days but maybe I owe for five minutes with the tester. Get a bill for eighty five dollars which I paid. This winter new furnace one yr old won't light half the time. Call them back and guy comes up and thing lights perfect while he is here. Says watch for codes and call me. Air switch. They have to order it. Wait a month and wife calls. Much worse than me calling. Show up next day and now it works fine but I get a bill for 180 dollars on a one yr old furnace.

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