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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Help with heater choice!

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loveshisallis

01-24-2008 10:00:33




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I am going to put up another out building, the simpler it is, the better!
so my question is, do they make a natural gas fired furnace/heater that runs WITHOUT juice?
Or, is there a good wood burner out there that would work good? I appreciate any and all advice on tis!
Stay warm




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jdemaris

01-25-2008 10:00:18




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 Re: Help with heater choice! in reply to loveshisallis, 01-24-2008 10:00:33  
I've got many of the Blue Flame/Procom ventless heaters as the other poster mentioned. They've been great with zero problems. They come two ways - flame-heat and infrared. No major difference except the open flame type radiates heat more evenly in a room, whereas the infrared targets heat on objects nearby. They also come with thermostats, or with fixed "low,med,hi" heat selectors. None need power of any sort.

In regard to the "ventless" claim - yeah they are - but like anything burning oxygen, they need oxygen - just as we humans do to breathe. The heaters have a low-ox automatic shutdown. I assume you don't run a snorkel out your wall to breathe, so air must find it's way into your house already. Subsequently, the heaters are sized BTU output to room size. I've got a pretty tight house and never had one crap out yet from oxygen. That includes a small one we have in a small bathroom. It's 6000 BTU. We heat all here with wood - but - in below zero days my wife uses the heater in the bathroom to warm it up a bit when our little kid gets a bath. That heater also has never shut down in that small bathroom with the door closed. I think they are bargains - I've got them here, in my shops, and at several remote properties. Some states don't allow them though - but no problem here in NY. In regard to wood-burners that run on convection/radiation alone - there are hundreds if not thousands. If you want a good one that holds heat and wood for a long time, burns very clean, etc. - I can tell you that our Hearthstone has been absolutely fantasic. It replaced a 1920 pot-belly stove we had that ran hot and burner out in three hours. We heat our house with a large wood-furnace during very cold weather - but in warmer days we use the Hearthstone. We've got the biggest one they make called the "Mansfield." It is lined with stone with retains heat for a long time after the fire burns down and sends it out evenly. Since woodstoves are regulated and tested by the EPA, all have to be pretty efficient now - but I'd stay away from the ones that can only do it with a catylitic converter.
The non-converter models are more reliable and usually bette built.

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wilsonfire

01-25-2008 09:11:20




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 Re: Help with heater choice! in reply to loveshisallis, 01-24-2008 10:00:33  
I have used a "Blue Flame" style propane heater in my converted attached garage for 5 years. I"m very happy with it. It is ventless but has a device that turns itself off if the Oxygen level becomes hazardous - under 20%. The combustion is so complete it has never turned itself off. It does produce a moderate amount of moisture but it is barely noticable. You can smell the "gas" smell but are unaware of it in just a few seconds. I figure we can use some humidification in the winter. When the power goes out it will heat my entire house to about 65 degrees. Thats with no fans, just keeping the doors open. I bought the size recommended for the room and its really too big. We use it all winter since the room is now a Gameroom/ bedroom. It has a built in sparker for ignition, a standing pilot and has never given a bit of trouble. It is made for propane OR natural gas.

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randallinMo

01-25-2008 06:24:28




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 Re: Help with heater choice! in reply to loveshisallis, 01-24-2008 10:00:33  
I would HIGHLY recommend you look at the "Lil' House Outside Wood Heater". I installed one for my house this winter and absolutely love it! It is an outdoor unit, VERY simple, Very efficient and cost effective. Just do a goggle search. They are located in Ozark Missouri.



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T_Bone

01-24-2008 20:31:53




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 Re: Help with heater choice! in reply to loveshisallis, 01-24-2008 10:00:33  
Hi LS,

The AGA never should have let the term ventless be used on fuel burning appliances as that's not a true statement and confuses people.

All though the non-external vented appliance works well, they still have to have fresh air "cross ventilation" to keep CO build up to a minimum therefor they are vented to the outside, just not direct connect vented.

Yes they make several kinds of non-fan natural/LP gas heaters but there not as efficient as a heater with a fan.

You didn't say how large of shop so were guessing as what to recomend, but as mentioned, the RV industry has a 12v 32kbtu furance for LP that can be converted to natural gas use. The efficiency is approx 85%. Add a PV solar charger and a 12v deep cycle battery and your in bizz for 24/7 operation.

In your area tho, nothing beats wood heat as it's so easy to get and will out produce any type of fuel burning appliance for warmth.

Maybe Wardner will stop in a recomend his Russian wood stove design. Takes very little wood to produce alot of heat and easy to build.

Another is a forced air solar hot water system. Another easy DIY project. In your area, you would need about a 2000gal HW cistern. Parts including concrete about $1000. Avantage is the sun heats the water for free. Trouble free for about 10 to 15yrs before minimum componet replacement is required, ie; pump, sensors, fan motor, controller maybe a inside sand/cement coat to patch leaks.

T_Bone

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bhb

01-24-2008 15:51:17




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 Re: Help with heater choice! in reply to loveshisallis, 01-24-2008 10:00:33  
This is only my two cents. The kerosene vaporizing heaters have carburator and float system, they heat well, are vented but must be maintained. The direct vent through the wall type are not very effecient maybe 60%. The non vented flame type heaters produce a lot of moisture (part of combustion). I heat a 20X30 area with one 30,000 BTU radiant heater. This is a millivolt system that generates its own power to operate the gas valve through a thermostat. Northern has them for $229.00 both LP and natural gas. I am happy with mine.
Bill

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Ohio D14

01-24-2008 12:44:12




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 Re: Help with heater choice! in reply to loveshisallis, 01-24-2008 10:00:33  
I use a vented fuel oil furnace that requires no electricity for my shop, and small cabin on my farm. They put out about 35k btu, and will burn kero, diesel, jet fuel, heating oil, soy diesel, and some people dilute regular used motor oil with kerosene(never tried this). These were built in the late 60"s but still do a good job.

I have a couple extra if you are interested.



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circus

01-24-2008 12:31:08




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 Re: Help with heater choice! in reply to loveshisallis, 01-24-2008 10:00:33  
Seen camper wall furnaces that don't require electicity. Got one. They'd need to be converted from propane.



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supergrumpy

01-24-2008 12:16:16




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 Re: Help with heater choice! in reply to loveshisallis, 01-24-2008 10:00:33  
we had several of them in CA rentals we lived in

NG wall unit with standing pilot light and thermocouple safety, heat on thermocouple ran thermostat

not all that efficient but very simple and reliable, not sure if they still make them



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Stan in Oly, WA

01-24-2008 11:57:45




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 Re: Help with heater choice! in reply to loveshisallis, 01-24-2008 10:00:33  
I have a freestanding Waterford natural gas stove that has no electrical connection. It is direct vented to the outside (snorkle arrangement, not a chimney.) The pilot light is lit with a striker, and I usually leave it on for the whole heating season. A rocker switch turns the stove on and off. If I needed to push the heat into a larger area than the stove is in, it would need a fan and that would need power.

It's my understanding that practically any gas stove can be run without a fan. The heat just won't be spread as well. Same as a wood stove. Exhaust gas venting is an entirely different issue, and not what you asked about.

All the best, Stan

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deano

01-24-2008 10:55:29




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 Re: Help with heater choice! in reply to loveshisallis, 01-24-2008 10:00:33  
Ventless heaters are available that run on N.G. with no electric hook up. You have to watch out for humidity level though, they put a bunch of moisture into the air



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RN

01-24-2008 10:40:02




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 Re: Help with heater choice! in reply to loveshisallis, 01-24-2008 10:00:33  
Double barrel wood burner used in some shops here in Wisconsin- is two 55 gallon oil barrels stacked, bottom is burner, top heat exchanger, extra radiator, sometimes oven use. Gas burner without electric control? Check mobile home/trailer supply/camping supply place- know a couple 20-40 foot trailers have stand alone cook and heaters from tanks. Need to light with match or igniter, have heat sensor cutoff switch so if flame goes out the inlet valve shuts- must do a manual bypass to start and few minutes warmup. Limited thermostat control but manual set for 65 degrees gives within 10 degrees most of the time. Not big units but enough for construction office trailer, camper going hunting. RN

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