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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Backhoes

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Jeff NWOH

01-19-2008 08:28:16




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Been kicking around the idea of buying a used backhoe. Just something to play around with around home. Got a couple projects in mind for it(either new basement under house or maybe a new house and probably new septic and leachfield also). Also have few friends who would be more than willing to "borrow" it. Maybe an occasional side job. Found 3 in my price range and was looking for some input. 1980? 410 ex-hoe w/cab 2wd 7000 hrs. Decent shape couple cracked windows couple loose pins runs pretty decent $10,000

197? 310 std hoe w/cab 2wd 6000hrs. Pretty nice for age. Rear tires pretty dry rotted. pins better than the 410. $9000

1989 JCB 3CX ext-hoe 4x4 4 in 1 bucket w/ forks cab. Shows 3100 hrs. Rougher than the deeres. Started pretty hard @30 deg. tires decent but back both go flat. One of the outrigger cyl rods is bent(still works though a little leaky). Couple Cab windows missing. Needs some tlc. $10,000

Kind of leaning towards the JCB as it is a lot newer and more tractor for the money (really like the idea of 4x4)although the prospect of gettin parts for it is kind of scary. If I get a Deere is it worth the extre $1000 for the 410? Looking for a little input. Thanks.

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bhb

01-20-2008 07:49:56




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 Re: Backhoes in reply to Jeff NWOH, 01-19-2008 08:28:16  
I had a Case 580B 2 wheel drive, twice it had a oil leak in the center of the tractor. The tractor had to be split to repair it, that was big bucks. The second time I traded it for a 580 Super E, 4 wheel drive, a cab with heat and a Cummings engine. It has more power and you can do more with the 4 wheel drive. It starts in cold weather just off the battery. I feel if it is to cold to start it is to cold for me to be outside. The dealer told me that the C's and up were changed so you would not have the oil leak or the expensive repair.

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Joe in Ne

01-19-2008 15:15:05




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 Re: Backhoes in reply to Jeff NWOH, 01-19-2008 08:28:16  
I think you might try to rent a Deere and a Case of the Vintage (Price range) you are looking for. I have had several backhoes and tried several out. Like some things about the Case but Prefer a Deere. In my area if I need parts I can get them much faster for the Deere. Also prefer the way it handles. I would for sure get a four wheel drive as it makes the machine twice as useful. Also the Four in one bucket works great for lots of things. Another thing might be rear aux hydralics. Good for different tools like breakers and packers. I starte with a old case years ago and worked up to a new deere 310Sg. You can't imagine how much nicer each step up can be and how much more work can be done.

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BobHnwOh

01-19-2008 15:08:34




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 Re: Backhoes in reply to Jeff NWOH, 01-19-2008 08:28:16  
Got a Case 580B about 8 years ago,don"t use it much but it is handy,only put hyd. cyl. seals and couple hoses on it,188 deisel.



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smith tx

01-19-2008 14:55:31




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 Re: Backhoes in reply to Jeff NWOH, 01-19-2008 08:28:16  
only thing bad about case backhoe is parts. you have to go to a case ce dealer. you can't go to a case ih dealer to get parts. even if you have the part numbers most of the time a case ih dealer can't even order them. don't know if deere dealers are the same way.



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Jeff NWOH

01-19-2008 12:10:05




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 Re: Backhoes in reply to Jeff NWOH, 01-19-2008 08:28:16  
Thanks gentlemen. Guess I'll keep looking for a newer Deere or Case (my first two choices anyway) as I'm not in any particular hurry to buy. Appreciate the input.



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farmboy steve

01-19-2008 11:19:12




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 Re: Backhoes in reply to Jeff NWOH, 01-19-2008 08:28:16  
case is the only way to go. get a 580C or later because they are unit constructed. that is you can change the engine or the rear axel without splitting the tractor. the 580 B and 580CK ARE FARM TRACTORS with heavy front axels, and to work on them you have to split them to put in a clutch or work on the transmission. not fun or cheap. the 580Dor 580E are good machines.



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greygoat

01-19-2008 10:25:40




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 Re: Backhoes in reply to Jeff NWOH, 01-19-2008 08:28:16  
I have been in the hydraulic business for many
years. JCB has an English system of hydraulic
fitting and threads. It"s different from the
American system, or the German metric or Japan
metric,(which very in thread pitch), and is
very difficult to get hose ends for, should you
need to replace a hose. Competent hydraulic shops
can order ends, to make a new hose, but you may
have to wait days to get them in, or pay BIG
BUCKS to get a premade hose from a dealer---
if you can find a dealer!

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jdemaris

01-19-2008 13:19:31




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 Re: Backhoes in reply to greygoat, 01-19-2008 10:25:40  
Since your in the business - why don't you use adapters? I can buy adapters to convert any machine to US standards and it's cheap.

I've got three machines with British hydraulics - all BSP fittings. For all - I bought BSP to SAE pipe-thread adapters - they cost $2 each. Whenever a hose blows, I install the adapters with a standard US hose with pipe-thread ends and never have to worry about it again. Nice thing is now - with the pipe-thread ends - I can buy premade hoses cheap at any tractor supply store - much cheaper then making any new hose.

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toby

01-20-2008 05:46:48




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 Adapters in reply to jdemaris, 01-19-2008 13:19:31  
Not a backhoe problem but have a problem with the same on some other equipment. Where are you getting the adapters.

Thanks
Toby



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jdemaris

01-20-2008 06:20:38




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 Re: Adapters in reply to toby, 01-20-2008 05:46:48  
There are many places that sell them. Even my local Ford/New Holland dealer keeps them on hand since many 1960s-era Ford backhoes had British hydraulic hoses. But, ordering on-line, in advance is much cheaper. A few places are:

Link

. . . or . . .

http://www.hfifluidpowerproducts.com/Default.aspx?Division=products&level=3&category=1&ViewType=1&CategoryID=MP&Final=1

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marlowe

01-19-2008 10:23:55




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 Re: Backhoes in reply to Jeff NWOH, 01-19-2008 08:28:16  
I'd pass on all three two wheel drive is just useless and also them Deeres of that age had a lot to be desired and the JCB is a good machine parts are a arm and a leg. find a Case 580 something and you will be happy



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jdemaris

01-19-2008 10:17:30




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 Re: Backhoes in reply to Jeff NWOH, 01-19-2008 08:28:16  
I was a Deere mechanic for close to 40 years - and we sold and serviced a lot of hoes. That included our Deeres, and also many Cases and IH machines. I used to have the luxury of borrowing machines for free - but no more.

At present, I own four old hoes and am now looking for a fifth. Case 580CK, Pettibone MultiHoe, Ford 4000 Idustrial, and a Deere crawler loader with an Allis Chalmers hoe on the back. The reason I have so many is - because I own several properties, and I'm doing work at all of them that requires random escavation. I gave up long ago trying to hire anyone - it's often a losing proposition. Might work OK for one big job - but if you have a situation that requires smaller jobs with no set schedule in mind -owning your own is almost a must.

I've dug footers and cellars, installed three septic systems, put in driveways, etc. Even used the hoes for setting 24 foot poles by myself and installing trusses on new buildings.

My experience is this. Deere makes great machines but many parts are "Deere only" and expensive. Subsequently, I don't own any Deeres hoes - although I do have a Deere crawler with an AC hoe on the back.
Deere machines are just too expensive to work on and to hard to fix. Case has some older hoes just as rugged and they use fewer "Case only" parts - but still have enough. You can't beat an older 530CK or 580CK if bought right in decent shape. They can often be found $4500 - $7500 in nice condition.

Ford has many older hoes just about as good.
I have a small 1964 Industrial 4000. My neighbor bought it used in 1967 and did an incredible amount of work with it as his farm. When he sold out - I got it for $2800 and I've done a lot of work with it with no problems other than hoses breaking. It's also light enough for me to truck.

My best-buy and most useful hoe ever is my Pettibone Multihoe with a Detroit Diesel 3-53. It's made 100% of easily found truck parts - nothing proprietary. Very similar to a Dynahoe. Detroit engine, Allis transmission, Eaton axles, etc. Very cheap to fix. I bought it for $1500 and spent a winter checking it over. I replaced all the filters, hoses, brakes, and installed a few new gauges, etc. Spent another $900 on it - and it's been great since. It's an 18,000 lb. machine, so I can't truck it myself. Subsequently it stays near home.

I guess it all depends on what you want. You certainly can get a good machine for $5000-$7000 if you wait and look closely. I'm in New York and I'm searching for a hoe right now in Northern Michigan where I just bought land. I'd like to buy a big ugly Dynahoe if I can find one cheap - they are workshorses and easy to work on.

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Ian Thompson

01-19-2008 09:42:04




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 Re: Backhoes in reply to Jeff NWOH, 01-19-2008 08:28:16  
Do not buy an old JCB, as posted before parts are a nightmare. I would look at only Case or John Deere. I've had eight Case hoes from 580C to 580SM putting around 10,000 hours on each one before selling them. In all those hours my only major repairs where one injection pump and one ring and pinion, plus hoses and seals etc. The 580E is a very good machine, but as said before if you aren't going to use it much it is a lot cheaper just to rent a machine for the job.

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T_Bone

01-19-2008 09:25:42




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 Re: Backhoes in reply to Jeff NWOH, 01-19-2008 08:28:16  
Hi Jeff,

A backhoe is just like owning a boat, a deep money pit with few returns.

Best buying tip is getting on the machine a dig/cover a hole for about a hour. This allows the hydraulics to warm up to where you can see if/how many hydraulic problems there are. They don't sell them cheap for a reason.

If the machine digs considerable slower after a hour then plan on extensive cylinder/pump rebuilding and reflect that in the pricing.

For a couple projects a year, renting a Bobcat or loader/hoe is much more cost effective. Ask me how I know this!

T_Bone

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Dale B

01-19-2008 09:21:38




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 Re: Backhoes in reply to Jeff NWOH, 01-19-2008 08:28:16  
JCB can be a real nightmare on parts. The Perkins engine is very good , but after that good luck. A part may change 3 times in a model year, no dealer can stock that big a variety. Do you have a Dlr in your area ? I'd check with the service Mgr there about your model. I too recommend Case. Look for an old Super "K" or Super "L". I work for Case and we have many if not most parts for these on the shelf. Avoid 580 Const King and 580 "B", the Power Shuttle transmission parts are drying up. Stick models are ok

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jack12345

01-19-2008 09:10:42




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 Re: Backhoes in reply to Jeff NWOH, 01-19-2008 08:28:16  
First for me is get a hoe that you can get parts easily/good dealer.Thats John Deere.
Had a Ford and it was a nightmare where I needed parts.
I have JD410 with about 4000hrs from org owner its 2wd. 4wd is handy if you have the need but remember its more to maintain and parts to replace. In cold weather cab/ heated are real nice and a dozer blade for removing snow,etc. Its hard to get a backhoe stuck-you have hyd that can pull/ push in most any situation. Check for leaks,maintenance records and how many owners have had it.More damage is caused in first few days of ownership when operator/owner is learning than any other time.Check fuel,air filters will give you more info on pre owner.Also some models/makes dont leave enough room for chains between tires and body.

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Jim Will

01-19-2008 08:39:57




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 Re: Backhoes in reply to Jeff NWOH, 01-19-2008 08:28:16  
No JCB Old Case is best in my view. Jim Will



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