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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Mechanical Radiator Help Needed Bleeding Air

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Joe MD

01-16-2008 07:58:12




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We have a new furnace on a late 70's baseboard radiator system. 4 Zones. One of the zones is constantly getting air in the line and the pump just runs with no hot water getting to the zone.

I know how to bleed the system of air, but sometimes the way they showed me is not good enough and I have to call them.

Is there any inline air bleeding mechanism we can have installed to constantly remove air from the line?

This one zone literally stops working twice a month.

Advice?

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Joe MD

01-17-2008 13:18:00




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 Re: Mechanical Radiator Help Needed Bleeding Air in reply to Joe MD, 01-16-2008 07:58:12  
Thanks for all of your comments.

It turns out that the pump had burned up.

I am not very knowledgeable on how this system works, but we do have one of the smallish bladder tanks.

The way they showed me to bleed the system is to shut off the water below the pump. Then between the shut off and the pump is a release valve. I empty that into a bucket until the air is out.

There is another way of introducing pressure into the system while you are doing this, but I didn't follow the guys explanation 100%.

I'll try to post some pictures of the system. I'm positive it was inspected 30 years ago and the only change since then has been the boiler and maybe one new pump.

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Bob

01-17-2008 21:02:36




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 Re: Mechanical Radiator Help Needed Bleeding Air in reply to Joe MD, 01-17-2008 13:18:00  
Did you get a chance to look at the B&G links that show how to set it up RIGHT, so it will work???



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Bob

01-16-2008 19:58:29




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 Re: Mechanical Radiator Help Needed Bleeding Air in reply to Joe MD, 01-16-2008 07:58:12  
1.) Is the system being maintained @ the "standard" 12 PSI of water pressure?

2.) Some hot water "boilers" have a built-in air separator, with a pipe leaving the boiler, and going to an expansion tank or automatic air vent.

3.) Other systems use an in-line air separator to purge air bubbles and direct them to a vent or expansion tank. Bell and Gossett makes units as good as any you can buy. Check out the links below:

Link

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dave guest

01-16-2008 16:22:03




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 Re: Mechanical Radiator Help Needed Bleeding Air in reply to Joe MD, 01-16-2008 07:58:12  
Don't you have several air bleeds? What does serviceman do different? Is there and automatic bleeder on the boiler? Is the supply makeup water turned on? I have used my 40 year old boiler for 24 years and not had this problem. Nobody touched it in 24 years but me. Do you have expansion tank or bladder tank? You should bleed vents when temp is high like 150 or so. Just crack them till you get water and close. Any leak that could suck air would also leak water I think. Was installation certified OK by city, county or state? Post info. Like to see solution. I am stumped.

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T_Bone

01-16-2008 19:23:08




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 Re: Mechanical Radiator Help Needed Bleeding Air in reply to dave guest, 01-16-2008 16:22:03  
Hi Joe,

I gotta agree with Dave. Make sure you have a expansion tank installed in the high point of the system.

If you have a expansion tank, then bleed off the air out of the tank until you get water, then stop. If you've never bled air out of the ET then it's backing air into the system loop.

It is possible to have a suction leak and not leak water as already mentioned. If you suspect a small suction leak, you can melt wax over the suspected leak to confirm the leaking joint/connection. The wax is easly removed for repair with a little bit of heat.

All water contains air, no matter what the source and in a closed loop system you have to have a place for that air to collect and that's the expansion tank.

Never ever install any type of flow control on the suction side of the pump as if you do you will guarntee that the pump will cavitate and tear up the pump vanes as well produce air into the system.

T_Bone

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Joe MD

01-16-2008 09:38:41




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 Re: Mechanical Radiator Help Needed Bleeding Air in reply to Joe MD, 01-16-2008 07:58:12  
Thanks, Bill. I will ask the guys next time I have them out. I will also look for a leak. That did not occur to me. I was thinking it was just maybe a bad seal in one of the shut off valves.



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Bill in IL

01-16-2008 08:11:05




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 Re: Mechanical Radiator Help Needed Bleeding Air in reply to Joe MD, 01-16-2008 07:58:12  
They do make hydronic air vents or microbubble absorbers that should work to take the air out of that loop. It seems odd to me that you keep getting air in there. Is there a leak somewhere?
I had also read somewhere that the circulation pumps should be mounted with verticle flow so the air will rise and pass through the pump instead of cavitating in the pump and causing you to loose the prime on the pump.

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mjbrown

01-16-2008 12:03:41




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 Re: Mechanical Radiator Help Needed Bleeding Air in reply to Bill in IL, 01-16-2008 08:11:05  
I think I also read that the pump has to push the hot water to the zone not pull it.



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