Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Attention Forum Users: On the 28th of December 2023 at 9:00am Central Time, we will be taking the forums down for maintenance while we prepare the new forums for your use. Please click here for more information.

Tool Talk Discussion Forum

110 electric question

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
john in la

01-01-2008 17:24:39




Report to Moderator

Had to put a light in the pump house for the first time this year tonight so its got me thinking about running a wire for it again. Every year I say I am going to do this but never get around to it.

Anyway I have a 10-2 w/ground bury able wire run to the pump house now for my 220v pump. So I need to run a 14 ga neutral. Then I got to thinking; what if I have a problem with the light only. How is it going to throw a 2 pole breaker when it is only hooked to 1 pole?
I know they run dryers with 220 and 110 on 4 wires. 2 hot; 1 neutral; 1 ground.

So should I just get a 14-2 w/ground and run a separate wire for the light from a different breaker or is running a neutral wire alone and hooking the light to 1 pole of the 220 enough.

Suppose to get a little chilly tonight. Down to mid 20�s tonight and low 20�s tomorrow night. BRRRRR RR!!!!! !!!

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
GeneMO

01-02-2008 11:58:56




Report to Moderator
 Re: 110 electric question in reply to john in la, 01-01-2008 17:24:39  
How much trouble would it be to put in a small breaker box? Have both 220 and 110. The just use a $20 milk house or utility heater.

Those little utility heaters have a thermostat and you can generally get it set to where the pumphouse stays at around 40 degrees. I have never had one fail and I dont have to go up to the pumphouse at midnight in the snow cause I forgot to turn on the heatlamp. Done that for 30 plus years before I got tired of that.


Gene

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
john in la

01-02-2008 17:28:08




Report to Moderator
 Re: 110 electric question in reply to GeneMO, 01-02-2008 11:58:56  
I have a fuse box on the side of the pump house right now. The problem is I do not have a neutral wire running from my main breaker box on the house to the pump fuse box so I can not use 110 volt items.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Slowpoke

01-03-2008 00:00:29




Report to Moderator
 Re: 110 electric question in reply to john in la, 01-02-2008 17:28:08  
Is a milk house heater with thermostat available that runs on 220? No sense in using power to keep the lamps lit 24 hours/day.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
RWK in WI

01-02-2008 05:47:11




Report to Moderator
 Re: 110 electric question in reply to john in la, 01-01-2008 17:24:39  
Around here the larger "Ace hardware" stores carry 240 V bulbs. If they don't stock them they can order them. Otherwise electrical supply places can get them in a day or two. They are commonly used in some "exit" lights on some older commercial buildings.

If you go the 2 or 3 bulbs in a series route an easy way is to get 2 or 3 of the waterproof sockets that have pigtails on them and connect the tails in series and a plug on the end.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
john in la

01-02-2008 17:34:27




Report to Moderator
 Re: 110 electric question in reply to RWK in WI, 01-02-2008 05:47:11  
Thanks for the 240v bulb lead. I tryed doing a search for 240v bulbs on the internet but only thing I could find has the price in pounds.

Will try the local elect. supply Sat and see what they got or can get in 240v light or a 240-110 transformer. If that becomes a real problem I may just do the 3 110v lights.

Thanks for all the help. I have gotten several ideas to work with now that I never thought of before.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Chris(WA)

01-01-2008 19:41:55




Report to Moderator
 Re: 110 electric question in reply to john in la, 01-01-2008 17:24:39  
Get a small 240 to 120 VAC transformer and run the light with it.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
John T

01-01-2008 18:24:28




Report to Moderator
 Re: 110 electric question in reply to john in la, 01-01-2008 17:24:39  
John, First of all a two pole circuit breaker will trip if either phase exceeds the breakers rating. I suggest you EITHER leave it as is with your two hots and the equipment grounding conductor (straight 240 volt only) and get a 240 volt heating element ORRRRR run a new 4 conductor wire there with two hots, a Neutral (a grounded conductor) and an equipment grounding conductor. That way you can use a hot and Neutral for the 120 and two hots for the 240 volt pump and the safety equipment grounding conductor is available where required.

The size of the new wire is determined by the full load amps of the pump motor and heating element and factoring in the length in case voltage drop becomes an issue. The circuit breaker is also a function of the total load and factoring in the initial start up current draw of the motor.

As a long retired electrical engineer whose rusty as an old nail on the NEC and now and Attorney I always enjoy these legal or electrical questions where a lot of opinions (most extremely worthwhile others perhaps not) roll out of the woodwork in an effort to help the poster. Hopefully you get the correct SAFE advice and we alllll ll (Especially code rusty old me lol) can learn a thing or two in the meantime.

Best wishes n keep it safe

John T

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Fred J

01-01-2008 20:15:39




Report to Moderator
 Re: 110 electric question in reply to John T, 01-01-2008 18:24:28  
Hi John,

Sorry this isn't the most tractor related subject, but with your interest in law I was hoping you could provide me with a simple answer to a question, in layman's terms, if you don't mind:

What does "tenants by the entirety" mean in terms of land ownership? The general background info: we are residents of Wisconsin and bought a parcel of land in Hawaii. The title states we own it under that phrase or term.

We are used to joint ownership. How is this different?

I do thank you for your time and consideration.

Fred J.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
John T

01-02-2008 15:35:15




Report to Moderator
 Re: 110 electric question in reply to Fred J, 01-01-2008 20:15:39  
Fred, in basic lay terms that means the marriage owns it, you n your wife i.e. its the same as joint tenancy with rights of survivorship among the spouses. You die its hers by operation of law outside of probate (non probate transfer) or vice versa. Another form of ownership is tenants in common in which each tenant owns an undivided common share. But in that if one dies his heirs devisees or legatees stand in his shoes and acquire his rights.

John T

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
buickanddeere

01-01-2008 18:07:18




Report to Moderator
 Re: 110 electric question in reply to john in la, 01-01-2008 17:24:39  
As previously stated, use a 240V lamp. If you rig some "Farmer Fix" with running neutral current on the ground. You either don't know any better or you an accident looking for a place to happen. Glad you asked here 1st instead of rigging some mess like 99% of people would have.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
tiresntracks

01-01-2008 21:03:01




Report to Moderator
 Re: 110 electric question in reply to buickanddeere, 01-01-2008 18:07:18  
Why can't you use a ground for a neutral? Don't the ground and neutral both hook to the same place in the breaker box? I'm not trying to argue with anyone, I'm definitely not an electrician and I'm trying to learn something so I don't do anything stupid in the future.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
buickanddeere

01-01-2008 21:58:23




Report to Moderator
 Re: 110 electric question in reply to tiresntracks, 01-01-2008 21:03:01  
If it doesn't matter, why is the neutral covered with insulation and the ground run bare?



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
tirentracks

01-01-2008 22:52:31




Report to Moderator
 Re: 110 electric question in reply to buickanddeere, 01-01-2008 21:58:23  
I don't know. Why?



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
paul

01-02-2008 00:22:16




Report to Moderator
 Re: 110 electric question in reply to tirentracks, 01-01-2008 22:52:31  
The neutral wire completes the circut.

The ground wire is hopefully never used - it is there to keep things safe. It is a path to drain electricity away when it is in the wrong place, make breakers work better.

Both the neutral & ground need to go to earth, so they are bonded one time to ground (rod & water pipes most likely) at the main enterance. If you connect them together _any_ other place, you end up making a full loop of the 2 - a circle, and they no longer funtion seperately. If the nuetral wire goes bad, you are putting full voltage on all exposed metal surfaces & won't know it - etc. Full circles are bad with electricity, you lose control of what is happening.

Each has a seperate job to do. That only works right if they are only joined at _one_ spot in the main box.

--->Paul

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
buickanddeere

01-03-2008 00:52:57




Report to Moderator
 Re: 110 electric question in reply to paul, 01-02-2008 00:22:16  
Must be a difference and a reason or the Electrical Code wouldn't require running both bare grounds and insulated neutrals together. The neutral is an insulated load current carrying conductor. The ground system is supposed to stay at ground potential. Any current flowing in any wire causes voltage drop. The neutral is bonded to ground at the service before distribution voltage drop occurs and is near to the ground rods to reduce voltage drop. The neutral to ground bond keeps the 120,208,240,277,347 from floating and being hundred of thousands of volts over true earth potential. If you have load current flowing on the ground system your livestock are now getting blasted with tingle voltage. Bad stuff.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
tiresntracks

01-04-2008 19:36:13




Report to Moderator
 Re: 110 electric question in reply to buickanddeere, 01-03-2008 00:52:57  
I know that there's a reason ground and neutral are separate, but they are bonded at the service entrance, but I don't quite understand what it is. You explained it, but you have a lot more knowledge of electricity than I do. Can you explain it in a little bit simpler terms?



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
john in la

01-01-2008 18:13:11




Report to Moderator
 Re: 110 electric question in reply to buickanddeere, 01-01-2008 18:07:18  
I know better than to run neutral across a ground wire. This is why I have been using a extension cord from the house to run the light so far.

Now where should I look for a 220v socket and light bulb at????? ????

Thanks for the help.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
circus

01-01-2008 18:04:54




Report to Moderator
 Re: 110 electric question in reply to john in la, 01-01-2008 17:24:39  
Good question. The question is "Is one of the two fuses strong enough to physically trip both?" I think so. Just be sure fuses are joined at the box.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dusty MI

01-01-2008 17:56:58




Report to Moderator
 Re: 110 electric question in reply to john in la, 01-01-2008 17:24:39  
If you look hard enough I think you can find a 220v light bulb.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
oldfarmtractor

01-01-2008 17:56:48




Report to Moderator
 Re: 110 electric question in reply to john in la, 01-01-2008 17:24:39  
Be creative and run three 110V bulbs, each of the same wattage, in series. That would extend the life of the bulbs and you would not need to run another line out there.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
john in la

01-01-2008 18:10:44




Report to Moderator
 Re: 110 electric question in reply to oldfarmtractor, 01-01-2008 17:56:48  
So you are saying that if I take 3 110v light sockets with 60 watt bulbs in each and wire them in series; I could hook this to 220 volts????? ???



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bus Driver

01-02-2008 04:14:44




Report to Moderator
 Re: 110 electric question in reply to john in la, 01-01-2008 18:10:44  
Using two (identical) 120 volt lamps in series on 240 volts will power each lamp at 120 volts, 240/2=120. Using three identical 120 volt lamps in series on 240 volts results in each lamp being powered at 80 volts. Since incandescents waste about 95% of the wattage as heat, the three lamp arrangement will be an effective, low cost, long lasting heater. Use of lamps rated 130 volts would be good for this application. Some say they would not use this setup. I definitely would use it.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
steveormary

01-01-2008 19:36:31




Report to Moderator
 Re: 110 electric question in reply to john in la, 01-01-2008 18:10:44  
John;

I dont think I would do that. A small 220 volt space heater or 110 volt heat lamp properly wired would be your best bet.

steveormary



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
buickanddeere

01-01-2008 21:57:13




Report to Moderator
 Re: 110 electric question in reply to steveormary, 01-01-2008 19:36:31  
A 300W 240V baseboard heater on a thermostat would work fine. May as well put a 240V lamp on a switch in there instead of staggering around in the dark.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
john in la

01-02-2008 17:46:09




Report to Moderator
 Re: 110 electric question in reply to buickanddeere, 01-01-2008 21:57:13  
"May as well put a 240V lamp on a switch in there instead of staggering around in the dark."

No staggering around in the dark in this pump house.
4' wide x 4' long x 4' high
Just big enough for the 2" pipe coming out the ground; a baffel tank and a 1hp pump.
1 flood light keeps it nice and toasty in there.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy