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Sheetrock Installation

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Bob Farrell

11-27-2007 06:30:40

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Kind of long post. Sorry. I am in the process of building living quarters (house) inside one end of a 60'X 100' free span, arch type, metal building on a slab concrete floor. Have all plumbing, electrical, framing,etc., completed. Now to the sheetrock. The ceiling joists are pre-engineered, I-beam type, that are 12" tall particle board with the outer I-beams about 2" X 2" boards. I am trying to do all I can by myself. I don't know what thickness drywall (sheetrock) I need to install on the ceilings. The largest room is about 18' X 30' with the beams running with the 18' width. I have purchased a sheetrock lift to assist in handling the sheetrock. But it is still kind of awkward.

I have been told I need to install 5/8" rock on the ceiling and 1/2" on the walls. The 5/8" is pretty heavy and I would like to make this as easy as possible. Questions: (l) What thickness rock do I need for the ceiling - and WHY? (2) What drywall screws do I need to use (length) and what spacing (pattern) on the ceiling? (3) Other than the obviously less mud work required what are the advantages of using 12' rock as opposed to 8' rock? (4) I presume the rock on the ceiling should be installed before the walls? (5) Any other suggestions before I attempt to do this? Thanks ! bob farrell

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cj3b_jeep

11-30-2007 05:46:49

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Re: Sheetrock Installation in reply to Bob Farrell, 11-27-2007 06:30:40

I'm no expert, but the longer the sheets the better, there are fewer joints to tape. Also, get yourself a rotozip to cut outlet boxes, doors, windows etc., but practice with it first, it'll run off any direction it wants to. Also, metal electrical boxes make it easier to use a roto zip, that way it can't cut into the boxes. Hang your ceiling first, mount a few temp 2x4's along the wall to help hold the top wall sheets in place, hang your walls horizontally, top first, that way you have a nice joint to work with at the top. Then remove the 2x4's, hang the bottom sheet, staggering your butt joints. When you're done hanging, go on vacation and hire a finisher.

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Mattlt

11-28-2007 06:37:44

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Re: Sheetrock Installation in reply to Bob Farrell, 11-27-2007 06:30:40

One suggestion I would add is to make sure to cut out door and window openings out of a larger piece. Don't be tempted to put a leftover piece in above a door, they will crack.

Don't ask how I know this...

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neblinc

11-28-2007 06:02:54

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Re: Sheetrock Installation in reply to Bob Farrell, 11-27-2007 06:30:40

Bob, I have a drywall screw gun & some other misc tools you can borrow if you want me to ship them to you.

Randy

My Shop

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Bob Farrell

11-30-2007 08:09:32

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Re: Sheetrock Installation in reply to neblinc, 11-28-2007 06:02:54

Randy - Just went through "all" the pictures of your shop building. Fantastic! I like the four oulet recepticals - and plenty of them. The floor looks great. Lighting looks quite adequate. Benches are simple - yet look real sturdy. You did a lot of planning before you started. I think that is the key.

Questions: (1) Anything you wished you had done differently? (2) How did you figure the light fixture(s) spacing and select the fixtures themselves? (3) What did you paint on the floor and has it performed? (4) What are the demensions of the work benches and what species of wood do you recommend? What did you use for the top work surfaces? (5) What's the brand, btu output, total cost and performance of the heating system? Is it economical to operate (I forgot where you are located - I'm in central Oklahoma)? (6) What kind of camera did you use to take those excellant pictures and is it easy to operate? (I'm totally uninformed).

As I mentioned earlier, I'm building living quarters in one end of a 60' X 100', arch type, clear span metal building with 24 1/2' at the arch peak. This takes up 34' of one end (two story) and leaves me with a walkin (from living space) shop area of 60' X 66'. In the shop area I will partition off about 24' X 40' X 12' high for use doing woodworking stuff. I'm not a woodworker - just piddle for personal satisfaction. This part will be finished much as is your shop (reason for all the questions). The remaining area (about 3,000 square feet) is for use as a conventional shop - tractors, pickups etc. I'm going on 70 years old and don't know if I ever will get done - but I'm plodding.

Thanks again for sharing your project with me and I sure do appreciate your guiding comments. Bob Farrell

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Bob Farrell

11-29-2007 09:01:38

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Re: Sheetrock Installation in reply to neblinc, 11-28-2007 06:02:54

Randy - Thanks for your offer of the tools. I have all the tools to do the job. Your offer is most generous - and I appreciate it. Just got to buckle down - and do it. Thanks again. Bob Farrell

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NE IA

11-28-2007 05:19:23

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Re: Sheetrock Installation in reply to Bob Farrell, 11-27-2007 06:30:40

Lots of good advise so far. The only things I would suggest is to hang the ceiling first and do not screw within 16 inches from any side wall---not ANY screws. The do it youselfers will question this statment, as well as the old school carpenders, but simply research the subject if in doubt.---Now then when you put your side wall rock on --push up-- the hanging edge with your sidewall sheet rock. The reason is because if the ceiling is screwed along the outside perimeter you are asking for cracks. If you use the method I suggested the joint can kind of flex (for lack of a good word to use), thus avoiding a crack. This was first introduced in our area in 1992, and used to avoid problems when using trusses with southern yellow pine. They have a habit of upward movment when exposed to extreem cold in attics. It still doesn't make sence why, but engeeners can explain it better than me. The other suggestion is that most do it yourselfers have a reputation of filling the joints to full. Keep your mud knife clean on the outside away from your drywall as you make the last pass. Drywall sanding is not needed if you clean up your act as you make the final pass on your joints. I suggest wiping the knife on your pant leg before making the final pass. Keep a bucket of water to drop all insterments into. Joint compound will never stick to your tools if you keep them under water for storage. Blue steel will rust, so you need to clean, and take them out at the end of your work day. Before you tape the joints you may want to take a old knife and push it over every screw to make sure you do not hear rail road clic click noises. The screws must be below the surface, and crooked screws are not desireable. You may want to avoid screwing off the butt joints untill you have the next sheet on the butt joint installed. The screws in the butt joint tend to chunk out and keep your joint from being tight if you screw off one side before the next sheet is installed. This you will understand once you try screwing off one side before putting up the next sheet. The beveled side edges have paper wrapped around so they pose little threat if you do not screw to close to the edge. If you get the bulge of your screw to close you will throw your next side sheet out of square. Again, you will soon understand this once you get started taping, and mudding. If you leave a gob of mud, YOU WILL have to sand it down. Use at least a cheap face mask when sanding. Ask your drywall store about the use of mud pans, and drywall router---even a dremil tool is ok for small projects-- for electrical boxes, window and door openings. otherwise you need to measure all windows, electrical boxes etc. This takes alot of time. Buy SS knives as long as you do not drop and bend them, they are pretty cheap now days. Use CLEAR visqueen under the sheetrock. You can mark your screw pattern on your sheets while it is on the saw horses. A drywall square is handy. The kids, or wife can do this for you as the sheets come off the pile---before you put them on the studs. Sheetrock jacks block any attempt to chalk line, and premarking will probably pay off in time saved by missing the joists with screws. A bad drywall job will remind you for many years, that you should have done it right the first time. There is a bad thought that texturing covers all sins---That is a very false statment, look around other drywall projects, and you can see what I'm talking about. Good luck.

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suptscottyb

11-27-2007 15:27:20

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Re: Sheetrock Installation in reply to Bob Farrell, 11-27-2007 06:30:40

Mark may be right. 16" centers are allowed in Ca. check your local codes, Fire code may call for 5/8 lids. 12' sheets are commonly used throughout. I do not suggest you run long joints along the TGIs( that's the name of the framing member you described). Drywall is engineered to hang from as many frame members as possible to spread the load and create a more even surface.
If you pull a string accross the bottom of the TGIs midspan, you will be suprized at how much they vary. Hanging the board accross them will help minumize the variation. If you need to - hire a taper who can hide all of the mistakes. 21/2" screws 6 inches apart on the seams (staggered sheet to sheet it looks like one zig zag line at 3" on center) and 8 inches apart in the field is standard , but again if you are gonna be inspected... get a "cut sheet" from building and safety on residential drywall installation for your county. No matter what they make you do - it's easier than doin' it twice. If you do tape it, prefill any gaps before taping. A lot of beginners prefer the self adhesive mesh tape. You can cut and stick it before mixing the mud.
Good luck and have fun, Scottyb

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16840138

11-27-2007 11:33:26

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Re: Sheetrock Installation in reply to Bob Farrell, 11-27-2007 06:30:40

Avoid caulk lines they will bleed through the paint. Use a soft pencil and for ceilings. Place lines at 16" and 32". Side walls glued one screw at 24", otherwise same as ceiling 16" 32".
Whether you hang it with help or use a drywall jack, make sure that the drywall is tight against the framing; as drywall screws or nails will not pull up the drywall. The result will be a loose ceiling. Loose ceiling can be determined by looking for screw or nails that look like they need another application of taping compound then pushing up against the drywall; the screw or nail dipple will move.
Repaired by pushing the drywall tight to the framing member and installing another screw or nail in the same location. Remember the most common mistake made drywalling;
fastners too deep, once the paper is broke no holding. And too many fastners. Too many pieces.
Start hanging your ceiling on an outside wall; these walls are usually going to be straight. If for some reason you believe the outside wall is out of plumb, hang the first piece of drywall to outside wall and then start the second row making sure to keep the butt joints even. Going all the way across the room. Then go back to the 1st row and check width measurments as you go. By doing it this way you will avoid another drywall problem. Good luck and be safe.

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Stan in Oly, WA

11-27-2007 11:52:12

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Re: Sheetrock Installation in reply to 16840138, 11-27-2007 11:33:26

My experience is that colored chalk may come through 1 coat of paint, but not 2. Primer coat locks in the chalk, 2nd coat covers it. In a shop you might only be putting on a single coat of paint, but Bob asked in reference to living space. I've seen high cost paint that failed to cover even with more than 2 coats, but if I've ever seen latex paint that provided a high quality finish with a single coat, I can't remember it.

All the best, Stan

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Stan in Oly, WA

11-27-2007 09:25:55

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Re: Sheetrock Installation in reply to Bob Farrell, 11-27-2007 06:30:40

Hi Bob,

5/8 on the ceiling is required, not optional, in most places. If you want sheetrocked walls that feel like lath and plaster (although nowadays, who'd know?) use two sheets of 1/2". Besides the expense, this creates problems with outlet boxes and other fixtures that are designed for either 1/2" or 5/8", but it's quite the deluxe deal when it's done.

I've hung and taped enough sheetrock to cover a football field in the remodeling biz, so I've developed a pretty good eye for where the screw or nail goes when I'm doing walls. People who do it exclusively for a living probably get that way for the overhead, too, but I never did. I always strike chalklines on each piece of overhead sheetrock. Overall, I'd rate it a big time saver.

Mention it if you need to do any soundproofing. There are two or three right ways, and about a hundred wrong ways, to do it. I've got a system that's fairly easy (although many systems that don't work are much easier) and very effective.

All the best, Stan

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Bob Farrell

11-29-2007 09:06:50

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Re: Sheetrock Installation in reply to Stan in Oly, WA, 11-27-2007 09:25:55

Stan - Thanks for your reply. The only sound proofing I planned is to insulate the interior walls with fiberglass batts. Also doing this for zone heating/cooling purposes.

What suggestions do you have for further soundproofing? Thanks ! bob farrell

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the tractor vet

11-27-2007 09:11:39

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Re: Sheetrock Installation in reply to Bob Farrell, 11-27-2007 06:30:40

Well i am not a real drywall expert but i have done my house and learned a bunch . If ya have a 18 foot wide room then i myself would get 18 foot sheets of 5/8th's , yes they are going to be heavy but with a little help from some friends ya can get thru it then ya have not BAD seams . As in my house my rooms were odd sizes like 15 foot 6and 3/8th's buy 13.6 and change . Well after checking prices on 10 and 12 and 8 foot stuff at various places i called this one place and the guy on the other end asked just what i was tryen to do , so i tell him that well i have 9 foot ceilings and this is the room sizes . So he says here is what ya need to do ya need 54 inch wide for the walls and 4 foot wide for the ceilings and i have drywall on stock that goes up to 28 foot in lenghts . So he tells me to use the 54 x 16 for the long walls and 54x14 for the short walls and 5/8th's x4x14 on the ceilings . By going this route he saved me over 278 dollars over buying the 8-10-12 and tryen to pice it together and i had no BAD seams Just cut outs for the windows and doors and outlets . My drywall work was and effort of the wife and a couple of buddys when one did not have time to come and give a hand someone else did . So before ya go to homer depot or lowes look in the phone book for a drywall suppliers and do some callen for prices and sizes on hand there is always ONE that will cut ya a deal.

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El Toro

11-27-2007 09:10:51

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Re: Sheetrock Installation in reply to Bob Farrell, 11-27-2007 06:30:40

You need to check your local building codes. I think 5/8 is required for the ceiling. Use the longest sheets available and get someone to help you. Hal
PS: I would put in foam insulation. It will make a big difference in comfort. Will save money too in the long run.

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glennster

11-27-2007 07:01:12

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Re: Sheetrock Installation in reply to Bob Farrell, 11-27-2007 06:30:40

mark has it nailed pretty good. the longer sheetrock will give you less seams to finish. i would run my long seams so they lay on the beams, less change of sags and cracks later on. you need to stagger the short seams on the 4 ft width so they dont all line up. you can start the first row with a half sheet of either 8 or 12 footers, then next row, full sheet, next row half sheet ect.i like to use adhesive also on the cieling drywall, less chance of cracking. also, my first mud coat i use durabond 90, its a setting compond dries in about 90 minutes, but it dont sand, so use a 4" knife for your first coat. then follow up with successive coats of sandable drywall mud to finish.

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sjh

11-27-2007 07:01:08

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Re: Sheetrock Installation in reply to Bob Farrell, 11-27-2007 06:30:40

If you can handle 16's I suggest using them. Cut them at 15' At your but at 15' there will be no joist to nail too. Take a piece of plywood (slightly smaller than your joist width) and nail a strip of plywood to each side. Put that above your butted ends. Know screw it in. The drywall will curve up slightly. This gives you a invisible seam when mudded.

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evielboweviel

11-27-2007 06:57:40

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Re: Sheetrock Installation in reply to Bob Farrell, 11-27-2007 06:30:40

5/8 is fire rated which helps on ceilings. also a lot stiffer and less likly to sag. there used to be a big difference in drywall from drywall suppliers and drywall from Homless Depot, Lowes, etc. The paper was thicker and screw did not tear thru. Would check quality before buying. the thin paper on the face is a real b---ch to hang, screws don't pull it up tight right
use a drywall screwgun set for the proper depth, use adhesive unless you have plastic acroos the ceiling joists. Try to end the 4' ends between joists using a 2x4 that is about 3/8" above the joist this gives a beveled edge for finishing also and hides the joint better
good luck
Ron

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markiz41

11-27-2007 06:46:32

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Re: Sheetrock Installation in reply to Bob Farrell, 11-27-2007 06:30:40

1. If the joists are 16 inches on center - 1/2 will suffice. If more than 16 OC, use 5/8 to avoid future sagging.
2. The local code rules on this one. Usually, put a screw every 12 inches inside a board and every 6 inches along the edges. Wood screws for wood joists, metal screws for metal studs. 1.5 to 1.75 in length.
3. No other advantage as far as I see.
4. Correct.
5. Rent a drywall panel lift if you are working by yourself.

Good luck

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markiz41

11-27-2007 06:49:11

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Re: Sheetrock Installation in reply to markiz41, 11-27-2007 06:46:32

Sorry about the panel lift advice, I see you already have one. Change 5 to "have fun".

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