OT: trespassing laws, hunters and dogs.

Also my neighbor and I on Saturday posted large no trespassing flourescent orange signs all along the back of our lots and the north side of my land, we each have 2.5 acres. I would never shoot a person for trespassing but...If a guy is walking on my land with a firearm what should I do if he is firing towards my home with a 12 gage shotgun? Michigan is known for deer hunting, and trespassing hunters. In fact my area is ripe with deer, I see deer almost every day, mostly female, not many bucks. By the way my neighbor saw a guy walking on his land last week and they exchanged some words, basically hey buddy you dont have permission bla, bla, bla. Also our 2.5 acres is heavly wooded especially in the back, on my land you cant see more then 200 feet into the woods because it is so dense with trees even in the fall and winter.

if one of our dogs wander to any of the neighbors they kick them in the butt and send em home ,, same here when they wander this way,,,

as far as keeping an eye on 2.5 acres and worrying about posting it,,, I have a lawn bigger than that...

neighbours are a great thing but I guess maybe its a living in the country thing, mine will pitch in cutting firewood, skinning deer, or whatever needs to be done,,, one hand washes the other,, and I dont believe we keep score,,, there will come a time when you will realize this I guess,

As far as defense of you n your family on your property, the law places a higher value on life then personal property so if a thief is in your yard and running AWAY from you with your goods best NOT use deadly force to kill him. A lil different however, if a burgular IS INSIDE YOUR HOME, hes still somewhat protected by the law if hes retreating versus coming at you (in which case hes pretty well at your mercy) and again this is a subject that fills entire law libraries and I and and sure not any lay person can ever cover it here lol

One advantage of No Tresspass Signs is it one places the intruder on Notice plus in some jurisdictions it can increase the damages you might be entitled to. Post them in a lot of places and document such with photos and certified mail etc etc. Also as far as the law of negligence is concerned (he gets hurt on your property) you owe very little to any duty of care to a tresspasser as you would say to a guest so it can help your side in a tort lawsuit for sure. One still has a duty TO NOT set traps etc which might purposely harm a tresspasser but other then those type things you dont owe them much duty of care HOWEVER dont get that confused with an attractive nuisance such as a backyard swimming pool where you fer darn sure (and as it should be) have a duty to prevent kids from entering n drowning..... .....

Good questions, consult local counsel for advice and dont hang your hat on much here for sure

John T retired engineer n Country Lawyer

It also sounds as if you are afraid of dogs and you`re letting this fear guide your thoughts. Why would anyone even think of shooting a dog unless they had clearly been threatened?

This whole thread and your various replies seem to me that you`ve "moved on up" and now want to be recognized as one of those guys that lives in the fancy house in the country, a master of his domain!

Get a life Midwest! If the dog or any other animal is threatening, you do the only thing you can, you stop it by whatever means necessary up to and including shooting it and you don`t worry about a misdemeanor. Really now, if the dog was biting your kid you would worry about legality?....on the other hand, you should be arrested if you indescriminately shoot peoples pets.

Another thing, you have to ask what to do if someone nearby fires a gun in the direction of your house? What are your options? Run and hide? Shoot back? How about getting LE involved? The obvious answer is to make sure that everyone in your family is out of harm`s way and then call the cops. If shooting back seems like a reasonable choice you might be more than just a little delusional and paranoid.

$5200 in taxes? Big Whoop!

I have one dog, he lives outside and is unfortunately by himself alot. I do however let him loose whenever I can, which is a few days a week, and I always make time to talk to him, pet him, and feed him on my way in or out of the house on my way to work. Just like any of the others I`ve had I have no problem with barking. On the rare occassion that he barks during the night, which is normally due to coyotes or other dogs barking, I crack my bedroom window open and tell him to knock it off. He does. Dogs aren`t human but they do respond extremely well to human interaction.

I also take him to the woods with me whenever I can. He knows the two tree length rule and he`s very good about it which surprises the heck out of me, I just wish he was a little more respectful of moving machinery. He`ll lay two tree lengths away and watch me all day, that is until I stop to fuel up or sharpen a saw, then I expect to get a nose in the face atleast once, lol. Having a dog can be a rewarding experience for people who spend time with them.

As far as the dog, if I can get a hold of 'em, they're chained and the dog warden called. They come and that's the end of that. Got so I don't even give my address when I call anymore, "This is Ray and I got another one for you." Any dog that even remotely is agressive toward my family or animals doesn't get a chance to ride in the warden's truck. The three S rule applies. Then there are my guard animals:

if the boxer looked like this one please don't shoot him

Last week I had a guy ask if his wife could walk across the corner of our farm to her deer stand on the Gov't ground. I gave her permission, but next thing I know, her stand is on a line tree shared by a neighbor who doesn't allow hunting. I told him to move the stand, and he moved it over onto our place and crowded out a friend who had been hunting on us for 30 years. I let it go for the first season (last weekend), but now I'm gonna take her stand down, set it by the road, and call him to come and get it. I gave him an inch and he took a mile. I don't like people who lie to me.

Sorry for the rambling post.

P

Now on the subject of dogs coming on my property,I live in the country and on a backroad.I have nieghbors pets and hunters dogs coming on my property all the time.I "NEVER" mistreat any of these animals.I've never had any dog act like it wanted to bite or attack anyone here.If i did i might then have to take a drastic action.But i pay no attention to the pets and the hunting dogs that get left in the feild and come up,usually the next day,i just get the name off the collar and call the owner.The owners quickly come and get them and are very glad that i took care of the dog or dogs for them.If they are hungry and thirsty i give them food and water as if they were my own.I do not own hunting dogs myself but,i know the hunters have time and money invested in the dogs and want them back.But i will say that owners who have dogs that roam and cause problems should either put them in pens or get rid of them.No one should be at risk because of a bad dog and a unattentive owner.

First, the dog. To me, owning a dog means you take on the responsibilities of taking care of it, keeping it secured, and dealing with the negatives if you don't do the first 2 things. If one of my dogs got away, ended up on someone elses property, and acted aggressively towards the land owner and/or his family, I would EXPECT the dog to be dealt with any way that land owner deemed to be correct. That means shooting the dog if that's what it takes. That said, I'd check with applicable state and local laws if you have the chance.

Poachers; Call the law. That's what they get a paycheck for. NEVER confront anyone with a gun unless it's a life or death situation.

Hunters wanting to hunt on my property? I have a standard question for them. What percentage of my property taxes are you prepared to pay? Any answer less than ALL OF IT and I simply point at the gate and ask them to kindly close it as they leave. So far, no one has offered to pay ANY of the taxes, muchless ALL.

Anyone I see hunting illegally in my area brings a phone call to the Possum Cops. As I said, I hunt. I have zero tolerance for illegal hunters. (Something about allowing a criminal to run around with a gun)

You'll get folks who believe they have an unailienable right to encroach upon yours and my rights. Too bad for them.

This is our second year on the farm/land owners/woods owners in southern Wisconsin. I got some real good advice from a local farmer/hunter last year. his advice:

"You pay the taxes on the land you control who is on the land, nobody should hunt your land for free." What he meant was that any guy who asks to hunt on your land will atleast give you something for you letting him on the land. Atleast help you out with chores, repair fence lines, you know a small Thank-you.

A coworker of mine gives all his land owners a home grown turkey for Thanksgiving for the right to hunt on the land.

Back to last year, I had 10 guys stop buy the farm and ask to hunt. We let them and nobody offered even a small sniff of Deer Jerky to us. So this NOBODY got to hunt at all. I had one of the idiots from last year show up this year while I was on the roof shingleing. He ask and I expalained to him how I felt last year went and the nobody even stop buy the house to say "thanks" so this year NO WAY. He was a little upset, but not once did he offer to pick up a shingle and throw it in the animal stock trailer. If he would offered to help even for a few minutes I would have let him hunt all season.

We had the same problem when the local "fish" club wanted to restock the spring and creeks the flow on my property. Everybody wants to fish NOBODY showed up on creek clean up day.

As for stray dogs, we seem to be the local drop off point for peoples un-wanted city dogs, 3 in the last 2 weeks 2 labs one pitbull mix. I try to get them into the stock trailer and haul them in to the county dog pound.

Sorry for the stories and not much help,
Roger

I have put down more dogs than you can find names on a single page of a typical phone book. I have no problem with that as long as it appears agressive, its loose and does not belong. I know my neighbors animals, they get one phone call at best. If your 1/2 mile from a neighbor, then he isn't paying attention to his responsibility. The dog pound here no longer picks up dogs, they are full.

As far as your second comment, anyone who knows what I do for a living, knows I am not afraid of deadly force if and when required. I owe it to my family to come home every night. I've had more people at gunpoint with full intention of one life threatening move, and the newsies are busy. I've never been required to pull the trigger, but would have no problem if the requirement is there. I really don't care if people call me a complete idiot, it only shows that lack of intelligence of the name caller and their mental age. My family will always come first, you can enjoy the dog bites but not me. I'm putting it down so it doesn't chase deer and scar persons in my life. There is leash laws in all states.

Some people have no real obligation to own a dog since they can't really give it what it needs or even WANT to give it what it needs.

Yeah, you're danged right i'd be getting on the 4wheeler and high tailing it in your case. after all the dog could have had rabies!

as for hunters, well, barb wire fences solved my problem.