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Amperage reduction for using 10 amp max meter

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frankiee

11-10-2007 11:45:42




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I am working on a 12 volt circuit for a heater blower motor. It is burning out fan speed control resistors so I want to find out how much amperage the blower fan is drawing.
I have a multimeter that only goes to 10 amps unfused. The circuit I am working on has a 30 amp fuse in it.
The first 2 speeds I get about 5 and then 8 amps. The 3rd speed goes off scale the short time that I connect it. I dont want to blow my meter so I am asking if---

Can I reduce the reading of the amps on the meter?
I know that I can multiply the amperage by coiling the wire then muliplying the reading by the number of turns.
But can I reduce the true amperage reading with some trick using resistors or something like that?

Thanks

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KEB

11-11-2007 06:34:09




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 Re: Amperage reduction for using 10 amp max meter in reply to frankiee, 11-10-2007 11:45:42  
Like it says below, you'll need a shunt, which divides the current between the meter and the shunt itself. Not a trivial thing to design. Another possibility is to use a low value resistor in series with the load and measure th voltage drop across it, but you'd need an accurate resistor in the hundreth's of an ohm range.

Coiling wire only works when you make multiple turns through an inductive (clamp-on type) AC meter, and then only to increase the meter sensitivity, not to decrease it. Doesn't work on DC.

Easy solution, go spent $10 on an aftermarket replacement ammeter (or temporarily steal one out of one of your tractors!!) A lot cheaper than a good multimeter and plenty accurate enough for what you're trying to do.

Keith

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Red Dave

11-10-2007 16:36:25




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 Re: Amperage reduction for using 10 amp max meter in reply to frankiee, 11-10-2007 11:45:42  
It can be done, but it's not that simple to do.
You would use a shunt resistor in series with the load (the blower). then measure the voltage drop across it. There is more than one combination of resistance vs voltages that will do it, but one that is easy to calculate would be to use a .1 ohm resistor (that's 1/10 ohm) which would drop 2 volts across it at 20 amps, 1.5 volts at 15 amps and 1 volt at 10 amps.
Here is where it gets tricky: the .1 ohm resistor would have to be capable of at least 40 watts of heat dissipation and be at least 1% accuracy. At that low resistance, everything enters into the equation, lead resistance, connection resistance etc. I doubt that Radio Shack would have one.

Like I said, it works in theory, but it's not that simple to do. I have a Fluke clip on DC amp probe. If you know anybody who does electrical test work, maybe they have one they would let you borrow for of couple hours.

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MPK

11-10-2007 15:59:12




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 Re: Amperage reduction for using 10 amp max meter in reply to frankiee, 11-10-2007 11:45:42  
I bought a little tool that you can plug into the outlet and then you plug whatever you want to test amperage of into this and it will read x 1 or x 10. I'm not sure if this will work for you but you could check it out. Maybe this one goes the wrong way, increasing the reading instead of reducing it. I got this at a Sears store a few months ago.



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Charles (in GA)

11-10-2007 15:50:13




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 Re: Amperage reduction for using 10 amp max meter in reply to frankiee, 11-10-2007 11:45:42  
You can get a clamp on type ampmeter that reads in DC. Sears has one, about a hundred bucks but it is a useful tool for the future.

This would not be a Chrysler product by chance? I have a '99 Plymouth Breeze (Cirrus/Stratus body) and I had three fan resistors fail. They are air cooled by the air off the blower. Low speed is very slow, doesn't move enough air to cool the resistor, especially on startup if you happen to leave the blower switch on the lowest speed. There is a temp fuse in the resistor pack. If the resistors get too hot, the fuse blows, and you have to replace the resistor. I've never seen a blower resistor with such a temp fuse before. When I went to the Chrysler dealer to get one, the parts guy barely left the counter, he turned and reached thru the curtain and grabbed one off the shelf, very convenient, I suppose they sell lots of them. I did two things. (1) I absolutely never, ever use the lowest blower speed any longer, but the third one blew after I forgot and did use it, and left it on when I went to start the car, now, (2)I NEVER use low speed. I also wrapped a solid strand of 12 gauge bare wire around the stems of the burned out temp fuse and soldered it, it works with no temp fuse protection now, been running fine for a couple of years now.

In low speed, all three of the individual resistors are in series, and generating heat at a time when there is little or no air moving over them to cool them, thus blowing the temp fuse. As you increase speeds, the switch takes resistors out of the circuit, two of them for second speed, one of them for third speed, and of course, none of the resistors are used on high speed, all are out of the circuit.

Naysayers will say I'm going to burn my car up, but I say its a case of either bad engineering (a fuse with too low a temp or a blower that is too slow), or over engineering (a fuse that isn't needed), and frankly, there are millions of cars out there with blower resistors without protective temp fuses, it simply isn't needed, just a way to make $20 every so often off the unsuspecting car owner. I'm the ONLY person that ever drives or uses this car....

Charles

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frankiee

11-10-2007 16:49:27




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 Re: Amperage reduction for using 10 amp max meter in reply to Charles (in GA), 11-10-2007 15:50:13  
Indeed it is. It is an Intripid.
My resistor blew 4 days after a new one.
I bypassed the blown resistor tonight and got about 5 amps on the first speed and about 8 amps on the second. Third was off scale on my 10 amp max meter.
I have my motor on my desk as we speak.
Looks like burnt windings inside. Some copper windings and then some "steel" color windings.
I figure that you hit the nail on the head.
The motor is a old so it stops on the first speed and there is no air movement to cool the resistor and it fries.
New motor is $85 and another resistor block is $40
Thanks

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Bob

11-10-2007 12:06:29




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 Re: Amperage reduction for using 10 amp max meter in reply to frankiee, 11-10-2007 11:45:42  
What you need to make your little meter work is a shunt.

You might want to google that term.

It's POSSIBLE to make one, but you would need and accurate meter to verify it's calibration, anyhow.

MOST LIKELY you have poor connections in the connector body that plugs onto the resistor, making it overheat OR a bad motor that won't start on low speed, and sits there drawing current, while at the same time, failing to blow cooling air over the resistors (which are MOST LIKELY located in the airstream of the fan).

When the fan is on "HIGH", the resistors are switched out of the circuit, so they won't be exposed to high current, EVEN IF the motor is drawing excessive current on "HIGH speed", so the motor's current draw on "HIGH" (which you are unable to measure) is NOT what's burning out the resistors..

Do you have a functioning Ammeter from an old tractor laying around? You could use that to get an idea of what the fan motor is drawing.

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frankiee

11-10-2007 12:00:49




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 Re: Amperage reduction for using 10 amp max meter in reply to frankiee, 11-10-2007 11:45:42  
So I think that I can make a circuit of two paths.
The amperage will be half the total in one of the parallel paths.
Question is, do I need resistors in the circuit and if I do, what value?

Thanks



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soundguy

11-13-2007 08:15:07




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 Re: Amperage reduction for using 10 amp max meter in reply to frankiee, 11-10-2007 12:00:49  
Quit foolin around .. youv'e been tol dthe how and why.. and the cheapest, safest, easiest way to measure your current needs is with a surplus 9$ sunpro cheapy ammeter from the parts store..

Soundguy



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Joe(TX)

11-11-2007 14:16:44




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 Re: Amperage reduction for using 10 amp max meter in reply to frankiee, 11-10-2007 12:00:49  
To know the shunt resistance you would have to check with the meter manufacturer if it is not marked on the meter



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