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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Impact Wrench crank pulley nut 2.3 L Ford, wheels etc.

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Billy NY

11-02-2007 13:14:29




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I was reading some of the archives on impact wrenches, thinking I should probably get one for the odd and not so often jobs that require one, have a small compressor, and am aware of the limitations, line sizes and how they coordinate with the performance, so I'd probably stay with an inexpensive 3/8" 1/2" size, until I upgrade to a larger compressor etc.

Was wondering though, say with a 1/2" 4 cfm, max 275 ft lbs of torque, 90 psi, ( my tank is small, but I'm in no hurry, no doubt I'll have to get a bigger compressor soon, currently using a Craftsman 2 HP/12 gal tank 4.7 cfm) would that be adequate for doing wheels and or the crank pulley nut on a 2.3 litre ford, incidentally you may remember me working on what was a mouse infested '94 ranger, turned that around though, runs good, cleaned every part of that cab after removing the entire interior and re-assembling. I have to change the timing belt in it though, never done one of those, assume most would use an impact or bump the starter with a breaker bar and socket wedge in place. I know the compressor is not large enough, but for the interim I just wonder what may work off it for now. One thing I miss from our old shop was the big 440 volt powered compressor, and the plumbing throughout the shop.

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jokers

11-04-2007 08:48:23




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 Re: Impact Wrench crank pulley nut 2.3 L Ford, wheels etc. in reply to Billy NY, 11-02-2007 13:14:29  
Billy,

You will find that the cheaper impact wrenches aren`t nearly as efficient as the more expensive guns, there is no free lunch. If a more substantial compressor is not in the cards for whatever reason, perhaps you should consider buying yourself a higher quality impact?

I wouldn`t be surprised if you found that the cheap impact wouldn`t even work all that well with a high flow and pressure compressor, I`ve seen it firsthand with my neighbor who is the King of Harbor Freight.

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Billy NY

11-04-2007 10:17:57




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 Re: Impact Wrench crank pulley nut 2.3 L Ford, wheels etc. in reply to jokers, 11-04-2007 08:48:23  
You're probably right, good friend across the street, has several air impact wrenches, probably best to borrow his for now, between the tools in both our garages, were actually well equipped, so I've got access to things I don't have, like one of these. I'll probably wait a little longer and get a better quality one, seeing an upgrade on the compressor is no small purchase either, that ought to come first. Never was one for borrowing, but we've been friends since we started school though, never a problem, works both ways, always take care of anything borrowed better than my own anyway, out of appreciation, it's a good thing when people know how you are with taking care of things.


I have not tried fooling with the crank pulley nut, probably have time tomorrow, was under the impression that was how they did them with an impact, sounds like some hefting on a cheater pipe may be in order, ought to be interesting.

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Goose

11-02-2007 21:04:04




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 Re: Impact Wrench crank pulley nut 2.3 L Ford, wheels etc. in reply to Billy NY, 11-02-2007 13:14:29  
The 3.0 V6's GM used in Buick Centuries and Olds Cieras in the mid 80's had the harmonic balancer torqued at 250 FP. I remember once with one on an engine stand, I backed a tractor into the shop, chained the engine stand to the tractor for an anchor, and used about a five foot cheater to pop it loose.

About impact wrenches, I have a high dollar Black & Decker unit and an HF that was on sale for $9.99. For breaking bolts loose, the HF el cheapo has far more torque than the B&D.

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glennster

11-02-2007 15:09:51




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 Re: Impact Wrench crank pulley nut 2.3 L Ford, wheels etc. in reply to Billy NY, 11-02-2007 13:14:29  
if you are going to get an impact, and are planning to upgrade compressors in the future, get a good one. a higher quality air gun will use less air and produce more power than the less expensive ones. right now , even tho you have a smaller compressor with limited air reserve, you can still pull the trigger to get a tough bolt out and let the compressor build back up. when you go to a bigger compressor, you will already have a decent impact and wont need to upgrade.

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Billy NY

11-02-2007 16:37:04




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 Re: Impact Wrench crank pulley nut 2.3 L Ford, wheels etc. in reply to glennster, 11-02-2007 15:09:51  
Yeah, I usually lean toward better quality whenever possible, one tool I've not used all that often either. Suprisingly, that small compressor has gotten me by, many times when it can't keep up with what I'm doing, I just hit the auto switch off, let that motor cool, not sure what the cycle time is, so I've been careful, it will make a good back up once I get something a little larger, good friend has 3/8" to 3/4" maybe even 1", but from what I just read below, may not be the tool of choice anyway.

Appreciate the input, don't know much about these, except the big electric ones the ironworkers use to torque flange connections on structural steel.

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Charles (in GA)

11-02-2007 14:19:14




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 Re: Impact Wrench crank pulley nut 2.3 L Ford, wheels etc. in reply to Billy NY, 11-02-2007 13:14:29  
Forget the impact for the crank damper, If it has never been off before.

I think Ford hired the Jolly Green Giant or Paul Bunyan to tighen the crank bolts on the 2.3 and 2.8/2,9 engines. On mine, I used a socket, breaker bar, and a six foot piece of pipe (no joke). The clutch would not hold against the torque I was putting on it, so I used a 24 inch Stillson wrench on the damper (which is a large chunk of iron after you remove the pulley, no rubber in it like "normal" dampers) I wedged the pipe wrench on the frame and gave the cheater pipe several heave ho's and had the truck rocking and it finally came loose. A friend of mine had this same experience with the damper bolt on a 2.8 V-6 in a '89 ranger/bronco, and a local garage I talked with said "they were all like that from the factory". I went to the garage to confirm that the thread was right hand, it is.

I've changed the belt three times now (60K miles on each belt), I'm up to about 225K miles now on a '91 model, and I do nothing more than give the crank bolt a good heave to tighen it, with a 1/2 drive ratchet. No worry of it coming loose.

About the impact, a more powerful one would be better, but the one you describe would be adequate for most work. I have used a cheap Chicago Pneumatic Japanese made one for about 30 years now, for the first 25 years on a small 1 hp/12 gal/100 psi compressor and now on my big 7.5 hp/80 gal/two stage and it sure does make a difference.

Charles

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Billy NY

11-02-2007 16:41:31




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 Re: Impact Wrench crank pulley nut 2.3 L Ford, wheels etc. in reply to Charles (in GA), 11-02-2007 14:19:14  
Wow, sounds like a chore, I've got the right tools to do it that way, sounds like the impact is not the tool of choice here, never done one of these, will have to try the heave-ho first.



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Slowpoke

11-13-2007 00:32:16




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 Re: Impact Wrench crank pulley nut 2.3 L Ford, wheels etc. in reply to Billy NY, 11-02-2007 16:41:31  
I have removed the crank pulley nut on my 460 F250, & 2.5 Dodge Neon. Unless you want to remove the radiator and possibly other parts, there is little room to use an impact wrench. I use a bar of metal 3/16" or 1/4" x 1 3/4" wide and long enough to reach from the frame to the far side of the pulley. I drill one hole to match one puller hole in the harmonic balancer and put a half circle off to the side to allow the center bolt to be accessed with a socket. Bolt the bar to the balancer, install a second bolt in the next hole with the bar resting against it, and with the opposite end against the frame. With right hand threads, it rests on top of the left frame or under the right frame to remove the bolt. To install the bolt, the tool uses the opposite side of the frame or whatever is immovable. Sometimes making a specialized tool is the best way to get the job done.

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Billy NY

11-13-2007 05:20:57




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 Re: Impact Wrench crank pulley nut 2.3 L Ford, wheels etc. in reply to Slowpoke, 11-13-2007 00:32:16  
Getting ready to bring it into the garage, the radiator defintitely will have to come off to provide enough room to work, good insurance to, as it could get easily damaged, cooling system will get a flush.

That tool sounds interesting, and many a time I've taken a step back, realizing it's best to see if a specialized tool is avaialable or I need to make one. From the information I've read, and others experience, you can take a breaker bar say nothing less than 1/2" and get it tight to the frame, disconnect the spark to the cylinders, and bump the starter to get the bolt loose. Must be torqued in there at something like 250 lbs. The only thing, best to use a 6 point socket and have it stay firm onto the head of the bolt, stripping the head on this one would not be good. I'd imagine many shops just use an impact, hard to say, but I'll take my time as I go along. One thing is for sure, the right tool sometimes makes all the difference. The only thing Rotunda has and or is called for this job is a 303-097 timing belt tensioner tool, sounds like there should have been something made up for the crank pulley.

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Slowpoke

11-13-2007 10:56:31




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 Re: Impact Wrench crank pulley nut 2.3 L Ford, wheels etc. in reply to Billy NY, 11-13-2007 05:20:57  
Hey Billy NY, I have the '79 Ford Courier factory manual that calls for 110-120 ftlbs for the damper bolt on the 2.3 engine. 250 sounds excessive. Even the 460 only has 70-90 ftlbs on the vibration damper. If the bolt breaks off, or worse yet the threads get stripped, you're in big trouble.

If you don't have a manual, find one on eBay or go to the library. Also look for a Ranger discussion forum on the net. As far as using the starter to break the bolt loose, I've found that the socket and breaker bar is too heavy and unweildy to stay on the bolt head. It can fall off with the slightest vibration. My book pictures all the special tools (with part number only) needed to work on the engine except one: "Crankshaft pulley remover also required".

The chance of finding one of the special tools is like looking for a needle in a hay stack. I would start by setting the breaker bar near verticle and wacking it with a brass or heavy rubber mallet. Or place a piece of plastic pipe over the handle to use a steel hammer. But you need to hold the damper fast to accurately torque the bolt. On the other hand, I'm not sure the damper needs to be removed to change the belt. Maybe just the V belt pulley. It's been a long time since I change the belt.

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Billy NY

11-13-2007 12:17:12




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 Re: Impact Wrench crank pulley nut 2.3 L Ford, wheels etc. in reply to Slowpoke, 11-13-2007 10:56:31  
You're right on with that information, I was under the impression the pulley might be on there like it was torqued to 250 lbs, they're apparently a b$tch to get off.

I think this is about the only thing I own that I actually do not have the manuals for. I am a firm believer in factory shop manuals and or original manuals, I got a new or like new set (2 volume) for my '96 F-150, lot of good tech. information, I've got to swap out the 5 spd trans in it for one I have that is rebuilt, reading about doing this and related work in one of those manuals just about intimidates you out of doing the job, they are intense and list the Rotunda special tools needed by part number, also found the cross reference in .pdf for Rotunda to the new part numbers, and finally found the tensioner tool i was looking for, little expensive, large screwdriver is supposed to work as well.


I'm thinking I'll get that breaker bar on there with a 6 pt socket and see what the deal is, no matter what, this is one bolt that cannot get screwed up, definitely have to take the pulley off to change the belt. I found some good information and posts about this job on the ford truck enthusiasts forum, enough that it should suffice, that and other things mentioned by those who have done this job before, really good side information, like the crank sensor, all the things to replace or do "while you're there" and how to mark the new and old belts so you can avoid fooling with the timing.

The double sided rubber and nylon mallet is a very handy tool to creat some impact, I'll see how it goes, it's worked on other things, just have to take my time, be careful, think and have some patience with removing that bolt.

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