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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Durable goods?

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JoeK(WI)

10-17-2007 08:48:24




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Stuff that"used" to last?Is it gone?Or are folks just buying"low quality/cheap stuff?City here has an annual week long"clean up"for residents to dispose of non garbage/non recyclables that accumulate such as appliances,furniture and general debris.Scrounger heaven,but I'm surprised by the number of TVs,microwaves, dehumidifiers,fridges,stoves etc that appear,much of which is relativly new stuff as far as"durable goods" go.Is it poor quality across the board,lack of care,repair costs or just the"throwaway mentality" of society?Maybe I'm lucky,but my TVs a 89,Micro 88,VCR 90,Stove 60s,Fridge 69,Shop AC 78,Stereo 88 etc and all working well w/routine care.Maybe I'm just a "BAD" consumer for not replacing everything on a whim but I was raised"If it ain't broke....."

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Spook

10-17-2007 23:15:07




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 Re: Durable goods? in reply to JoeK(WI), 10-17-2007 08:48:24  
A lot of things aren't designed to be repaired. One examplwe is computers, the ones we have at work are HP's, and everything is on one board. If the I/O or some other function quits, there is no economic repair. Most electronic stuff is this way. Often the cases are sealed, you would have to break it to fix it. Now the reliability of these items might be great, but when they go, they go.



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Eric SEI

10-17-2007 19:20:31




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 Re: Durable goods? in reply to JoeK(WI), 10-17-2007 08:48:24  
I bought my TV in 79, it still works well. I just use the tuner on the VCR so that I don't wear out the tuner. But I bought a DVD player for $28 a month ago (Krogers has advertised it for $18 since). To pay someone to look at it would cost more than it cost, so I will pitch it when it dies.



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Billy NY

10-17-2007 17:40:54




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 Re: Durable goods? in reply to JoeK(WI), 10-17-2007 08:48:24  
Trying to recall where I saw this, but it was a family owned appliance business that diverted some of their business into doing ground up rebuilds on old refrigerators, I was kind of fascinated by the interest of people who buy these appliances of a certain era, mostly for the look of that era vs a new modern appliance. One of the things mentioned that was that the old ones were meant to be rebuilt.

I am not sure if the refrigeration systems are upgraded on them or if the old ones are rebuilt and what the electrical usage is with old compared to new, thought I read something stating it was not what you would think as far as electrical usage, kind of confused about that, but it appears that they have a good business, although most of these old refrigerators are in the landfills years ago, the ones they sell rebuilt top to bottom command a good buck though. I've got one from the 50's or earlier that still runs good, I don't use it but it does work fine if plugged in. Have a '78 whirlpool that keeps things colder than a new one, meats will stay fresher longer in the old one, keeps the beer cold, below 40, actually thought I dialed it in to about 33-34 deg. Do appreciate the old one, freezer blower motor can easily get knocked off line if you jar something in the freezer, have to find the blower for it, no way I'd part with this fridge !

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landlord7012

10-17-2007 15:54:21




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 Re: Durable goods? in reply to JoeK(WI), 10-17-2007 08:48:24  
I believe "Dick2"'s story might help explain part of what is happening - some people might not have the smarts to fix their own stuff but are at least smart or at least experienced enough to know that by the time you haul it down town (or have it hauled), pay just to have it looked at, then wait for parts (if available) and finally have them installed you are better off tossing it. And that's just if the repair person is honest. Heck I know a place that probably would have charged those stewardesses $100 plus just to tighten that screw AND have a mumbo jumbo explanation for the problem.

LL

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Dick2

10-17-2007 15:19:49




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 Re: Durable goods? in reply to JoeK(WI), 10-17-2007 08:48:24  
There is a growing percentage of homeowners that don't want to learn to repair anything; guess that they have their minds too full of horsesh*t - or they are afraid that it might tax their feeble brain and cause a breakdown!

Saw a dryer setting on the curb down the street one day. Knowing that a bunch of stewardesses lived in the house, it was apparent that they bought a new one. I got my cart and wheeled the old one to my garage and checked it over. Found that the setscrew had come loose on the large pulley on the drum shaft and had moved out and was rubbing on the tin back cover. It must have made quite a noise, so they just got a new one.

I had it fixed in 10 minutes, then gave it to the church preschool.

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Davis In SC

10-17-2007 15:06:53




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 Re: Durable goods? in reply to JoeK(WI), 10-17-2007 08:48:24  
1983 19" TV. 1984 Microwave, A Maytag dryer that was just a few years old, I got it free, because friends decided to get a black washer/dryer. Why throw things away, if they still work? Most of my tools have been bought over the years, at flea markets, and yard and estate sales. It is a shame that so much stuff now is made to just last a short time.....



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JML755

10-17-2007 12:40:53




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 Re: Durable goods? in reply to JoeK(WI), 10-17-2007 08:48:24  
Stan,

I got a chuckle at the end of your post (regarding tools). Talking to my wife one day in my workshop, she grimaced about having to deal with all my "junk" if I happened to go before her. I told her that she'd get a pretty penny for some of the stuff. So I asked her what she would ask for my excellent shape Delta Unisaw. Her answer: $25-$50! I had her promise that she would get help from knowledgable friends when the time comes.

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poogie

10-17-2007 14:53:51




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 Re: Durable goods? in reply to JML755, 10-17-2007 12:40:53  
That is what you get for telling her that you only paid $50 for it. i doubt if anybody tells the wife what they paid. Just tell her that you got it really cheap!



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Stan in Oly, WA

10-17-2007 12:26:05




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 Re: Durable goods? in reply to JoeK(WI), 10-17-2007 08:48:24  
Hi Joe,

I agree with what both Rob and JML said on the matter. I've also noticed that on the broad front, obsolescence is quickened by both technology and fashion. Consumers have been successfully conditioned to mindlessly prefer new to good, including the absurd but common feeling that ownership of the latest version of all the "must have" disposable consumer goods is a sign of personal merit. If you choose to keep something because it works well and does everything you need, you will soon find yourself very isolated. Most people will consider you eccentric, at best, and you will find it increasingly difficult to obtain technical support or replacement parts and supplies. Then, once you're forced to abandon your perfectly good product (WordPerfect, or a typewriter, or a VCR, or an answering machine) you will face a daunting learning curve as part of your penalty for refusing to stay bunched up with the herd.

Frequently now, however, you really don't get a choice to stick with the old technology. What are you going to watch on your non-HD TV when only HD programming is available? The recorded message advising people without touch-tone phones to stay on the line for an operator is pretty much a thing of the past, for obvious reasons. But what is also becoming a thing of the past is the attitude that such concessions are even necessary. If you can't keep up, or choose not to (probably especially if you choose not to) then you're just SOL. Who wants to deal with a non-conformist anyway? You'll probably just insist on talking to a person instead of transacting your business through a series of never-quite-right menus, and then you'll want to pay with a check instead of a debit card. What's that, you don't have a a debit card? You don't believe in them? It's just a shame that we don't have laws outlawing your type (yet.)

Here's an unexpected consequence of living in this brave new world where new is better than good: nobody wants the stuff you've got. There's a diminsishing number of people over 50 (more or less) who still recognize quality and prefer it. There's a growing number of people under 50 who do not have the capability to recognize quality, and who are forced to accept hype rather than exercise personal judgment. They like shiny things and bright colors, believe what authorities tell them, and are reassured by people who have letters behind their names and certificates of something on their walls. Only people in the first group are interested in buying the belongings (tools, recreational equipment, vehicles, even houses) of people in the first group. Since they're over 50, however, most of them already have most of the things they need.

I used to think that the high quality tools I own were worth some money. Increasingly, I'm beginning to think they're more likely becoming a liability. When I die, or even when I'm just too old to use them any more, they might only be something that somebody will want to be paid to haul away.

All the best, Stan

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RobMD

10-17-2007 10:11:08




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 Re: Durable goods? in reply to JoeK(WI), 10-17-2007 08:48:24  
Let's just say that people today mix a wide variety of consumer styles. Back in the war years, we used rationing which helped a lot with saving money. Farmer fixes were vital, and keeping the things that you had going was a big expense saver. Some of this rationing "attitude" passed on up through the generations to a sort of "semi-rationing" today.

On the flip side, society can be of a disposable ideal. Part of this reason is the cheapness and poor quality of made in China items. For example, a 1970's vintage toy was saved through the years while a 2000's fisher price made in china toy would be thrown away when the child got older. We throw out things mainly because they are old and out of date. Yes, I said out of date; people find "keeping up with the times" more important than the function of the item.

Finally, people may have NO choice but to discard something. Some product manufacturers no longer offer parts for a particular model. These days, time is changing faster, and society changes with with it, which leads me to my next point: That some people have no choice but to conform to society. For example, Tube TVs are being thrown away by many people because of the latest hype of plasma and LCD TVs. The reason? Demand has been so high for these new TVs that walmart and circuit city stores do NOT offer tube TVs anymore, forcing many people to either conform or just buy a used TV.

So the next time you see someone throw away furniture or anything that looks valuable, just KNOW that they have a reason for it.

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JML755

10-17-2007 09:23:16




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 Re: Durable goods? in reply to JoeK(WI), 10-17-2007 08:48:24  
I think it's a bit of "all of the above". I have replaced my share of timers, belts, etc on washer/dryers where the wife said "let's just get a new one". However, I usually weigh the "cost to repair" vs "replace" and in many cases, it just isn't worth it to fix. Computer printers are a good example. TVs: I can remember going to the corner drugstore with my Dad and a handful of tubes from our black-white TV on a regular basis. Tester was free, grab the replacement tubes from the rack underneath the tester. Last time I had a TV acting up, it would cost $85 for them to even look at it. Circuitry also used to be pretty standard on a typical appliance. Washers with full-screen displays. Try and troubleshoot one of those! Nowadays, even water faucets have micro-circuitry. Think I'm kidding? My brother came across the plumber sitting on the floor of his new kitchen with a CD in his hand containing the installation instructions for his high-end faucet with non-contact sensors to turn on the water.
Cars fall in the same category. Cheaper to lease than buy and deal with repair costs of keeping a vehicle. Can't work on one without an ODBII scanner to spit out the codes. Simple repairs can be hundreds or thousands of dollars. Check out what a tuneup will cost on a Chrysler Hemi with 16 plugs! JMHO

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