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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Power inverter/Fluorescent bulbs

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jack12345

10-08-2007 21:37:41




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I have a 700 watt (1500 peak) 12 volt to AC converter. When plugging in a equal to 100 watt fluorescent bulb direct inverter it works good.
1.inverter plugged into cabin fluorescent bulb will not light.
2.With no load( batteries fully charged) output of inverter read about 100vac with a fluorescent bulb reads about 103vac bench test .
3.With generator running fluorescent bulbs in cabin operate good/normal.
I think the voltage is too low to fire the bulbs when using the inverter is there any way to adjust output voltage of a inverter? What am I overlooking? Thanks,Jack

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buickanddeere

10-09-2007 23:34:44




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 Re: Power inverter/Fluorescent bulbs in reply to jack12345, 10-08-2007 21:37:41  
The other poster have the situation well explained. What can be worked up to boost the rms voltage and round off those square waves a bit is a auto transformer. If you can find a 120v/12v or 120v/24v transformer with 12.5 or more amp low voltage windings. The transformers can be wired to boost auto transformer configuration. Cheap & effective. Those bargain inverters hide "square wave" & "modified square wave" in small print.

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Bus Driver

10-09-2007 17:35:23




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 Re: Power inverter/Fluorescent bulbs in reply to jack12345, 10-08-2007 21:37:41  
Normal fluorescents will shut off if the voltage drops to about 90 volts. A good average starting voltage for fluorescents is about 600, created by the ballast. Your input of 103 is about 15% below nominal voltage, so the ballast would output about 515 volts to start. My guess is that this might be too low.



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Coloken

10-09-2007 11:41:05




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 Re: Power inverter/Fluorescent bulbs in reply to jack12345, 10-08-2007 21:37:41  
Would feeding its output to a one to one transformer restore it to a better sine wave? That is, 110 in and 110 out.



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MarkB_MI

10-09-2007 15:24:10




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 Re: Power inverter/Fluorescent bulbs in reply to Coloken, 10-09-2007 11:41:05  
In theory a transformer or coil would act as a low-pass filter and get rid of some of the nasty high-frequency components of the inverter's output. Which would shape it to something like a sine wave.

In practice, there's no telling what the inverter might do when you hook it up to a reactive load. Most of the smaller inverters are intended for resistive loads and may or may not like a big inductor tied their output.

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soundguy

10-09-2007 11:53:16




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 Re: Power inverter/Fluorescent bulbs in reply to Coloken, 10-09-2007 11:41:05  
yes and no. yes.. dumping it thru 2 inductors will round the square edges off significantly, at a cost of efficience.. IE.. power loss.. etc.. or reduced current capacity.

Soundguy



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soundguy

10-09-2007 11:28:01




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 Re: Power inverter/Fluorescent bulbs in reply to jack12345, 10-08-2007 21:37:41  
JD and mark gave you good info.

Inverter types makes the difference in what output it has. Some devices are completely alergic to square and steepped / approximated sine waves. Ferror ressonant power supplies are the main thing that come to mind and absolutely don't tolerate it.

ont he other hand.. many switching supplies like triac units.. don't nerely mind it as much.. especially if dropping it to regulated DC anyway.. etc.

as the others said.. my guess is your fixtures are not likeing the output..

soundguy

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jdemaris

10-09-2007 06:49:06




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 Re: Power inverter/Fluorescent bulbs in reply to jack12345, 10-08-2007 21:37:41  
What MarkB_MI posted is right-on. Power output from inverters - as well as many engine-driven gensets is a total crapshoot. The type of power made can vary greatly - and can often causes problems with certain types of lights, as well as battery chargers. These problems are well known to people using solar electric hybrid systems that need aux. generators to charge battery banks - and often use modified-wave inverters. Many companies sell "voltage enhancers" that are used along with cheaper inverters and/or gensets to correct the output. Some battery chargers rely on clipping the peak of the Hertz cycle - between 150 and 170 volts - which does not even exist with some inverters and gensets.

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MarkB_MI

10-09-2007 04:03:30




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 Re: Power inverter/Fluorescent bulbs in reply to jack12345, 10-08-2007 21:37:41  
Unless you're using a True RMS voltmeter, you won't be getting a accurate reading from the inverter. Most inverters don't have sinusoidal output, and most voltmeters assume that you're reading a sine wave. A 115 volt rms sine wave is about 200 volts peak, while a 115 Vrms square wave is 115 volts peak. The inverter's output will be something between a square wave and a sine wave, so it will always read low with a typical peak-averaging voltmeter.

The non-sinusoidal output of the inverter may also be the reason it can't start your flourescents.

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MarkB_MI

10-09-2007 15:18:50




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 Re: Power inverter/Fluorescent bulbs in reply to MarkB_MI, 10-09-2007 04:03:30  
I'm surprised nobody pointed out my lousy math. A 115 Vrms sine wave is 162 volts peak, not 200. I wasn't quite awake and hit square root of 3 instead of square root of 2. Whatever.



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T_Bone

10-09-2007 00:47:49




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 Re: Power inverter/Fluorescent bulbs in reply to jack12345, 10-08-2007 21:37:41  
Hi Jack,

Well that 700w invertor draws 58amps at maximum. So do you have enough battery, correct battery cable size for the distance,(0/2)???

Camping World sells a 12v flourescent lite for about $35 for a 22w, dual tube. Pretty brite for a normal sized room at about 2.5amp/hr.

Running T-105 6v (golf cart) battery's, that's about 41hrs of run time per lite. Add a 4a PV for about $350, charge controller $55, and no fuel cost and peace and quite.

I run my RV off of a 64w PV easy but I'm almost 100% 12v. Thats water pump, furnace and 10hrs of lites each day. If it was cloudy then you would need to run the genset about 4hrs evry 3rd day or add another 64w PV. Unisolar 64w unbreakable.

T_Bone

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