Gun advice: 9MM or .40 cal?

I can get the 9MM version for $189 or the .40 for $199. Ammo is about $3 higher for .40 per 100 rounds. Sure, more punch is good, but there's something to be said for less recoil, noise and cost.

Essentially, money is not the issue. For a long term, home stand weapon, with - no doubt - countless weekends spent plinking with it, would you pick up the 9 or the 40?

A 12ga. pump shotgun. You don't even have to load it. Anyone hearing the sound of a 12ga "jacking a round" will be 2 blocks away before you can tell them to freeze. All you will have left from the altercation is cleanup of the dump the perp made just before he left.

Seriously, a fully auto AK or M16 wouldn't put the scare into a creep better than a pump shotgun.

No malfunctions of any kind.

After I got the sense of the weapon (it was sighted in at the factory for 100yds and I was on the 50 yd range) I pretty consistently put the entire magazine on the target, frequently inside the 9 or 10 ring (standing up, from the shoulder). More to the point, it is fun to shoot.

Fit and finish seem reasonably good too although the trigger is a bit stiff. So far, so good gents.

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http://www.pistolsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=16080

I guess it's kinda like tractors, everyone has their favorite and their opinions about the ones that are bad.

As a cop, I carried a 12 ga. pump and a .357 sidearm. Off duty I carried a .44 special Bulldog and a .22 boot gun. So, I'm not unfamiliar with weapons and agree with much of what's been said.

One element of my thinking is that I need something that my wife can handle. So, a .45 colt or a big pump are likely out of the question. Yes, she will use a gun if need be. She's a country girl and knows her way around the real world. She can outwork, outthink and outmanuever most men, including me sometimes.

Anyway, my question was rooted in the relevant shootability of the two calibers, not having used either. Now, while the conversation quickly skewed off toward one of firearm quality - and I deeply appreciate your opinions - I think there may be some misconceptions afoot.

I have experienced untimely malfunctions in name brand weapons including Colt and Ruger. You haven't lived until you've had a weapon explode in your hand. On the flip side, one of the most dependable guns I've ever owned is a little, cheap Jennings .380 pocket auto I've had for years, pumped hundreds of rounds through with nary a problem.

Fit and finish are not necessarily the measure of a good firearm either, witness the AK-47, one of the crudest yet most revered assault weapons ever made. The vaunted Colt M-16 was plagued with problems for years and was arguably responsible for many dead young Americans in Nam, yet has been refined to the point that it is now one of the finest choices available. The name on the piece and the finish of that piece are indicators but not determining factors in the overall effectiveness of the weapon. There are bad JDs and there are good ones, same with Fords and Oliver.

I can smooth a rough piece of plastic stock, hone an action, smooth a trigger. If the machine is a reliable shooter and has a good form/function aspect with resonable stopping power (not too much power either since it is a residential op) I am interested.

The carbine, as a class, seems a good fit here. Light weight, light ammo load, small size, simple and easy to operate for a woman if need be.

I've read many good things about the Hi-Point carbine, especially the newer more refined ones. Has anyone read any bad reviews, not just heresay, but actual structured firing tests?

I've heard many knowledgeable guys say they love theirs, claim they are accurate and reliable. My sense is that if they were priced at $400 instead of $200 they'd get more respect instead of being scoffed at as a 'cheap' gun.

So, again my friends, I respect all your opinions and sage advice, I think I will see for myself. I will get the carbine, 9 mil I think, cycle a few boxes through her and let mama have a turn too.

After that I will report back to you and let you know what I figure out. It'll be a fun thing for all of us. And, if it doesn't stand up to my expectations I'll sell it and do something else. Besides, (don't laugh too hard now) if it doesn't work I've still got my old Jennings .380 to back it up.

880 is 10-8, off to the gun shop.

With lots of plinking I'd go 9MM.

If money is no object, why don't you buy a pump action shotgun for home defense and a Hi-Point 9mm carbine for fun? Almost everything everyone has said on the subject is correct, but also kind of overstated. So many of us are fascinated by guns and gun related issues that we tend to lose sight of the odds of this situation (home invasion, or occupied house burglary) ever happening to any individual. Statistically you're much more likely to hit a deer on the highway than to have your home stormed by homicidal crackheads, and probably more likely to be killed by a deer coming through the windshield of your vehicle than by a home invader. But hitting a deer is not titillating to think about, and there are no glamorous precautions you can take for it. So we drive our car and trucks on country roads and hope we don't hit a deer---and that's it. Home invasion, though...armed robbers at the door...now we're into the good stuff. Me too.

Let me tell you something about Hi-Point firearms since nobody has bothered to do that yet. Semi-auto pistols up to .380 auto can be straight blowback. The strength of the slide return springs, the weight and inertia of the slide, and the momentary expansion of the shell casing upon detonation are enough to keep the shell casing in the chamber until the high pressure gases have left the barrel behind the bullet. At about 9mm Parabellum and up, cartridge pressures are too high for straight blowback to be adequate and some method of locking the chamber shut momentarily upon firing is engineered into the pistol. (This is a quick description, not a comprehensive one.)

Building a straight blowback pistol is easy and cheap. Building a locking pistol is more complicated and more expensive. Some manufacturers have always tried to provide large caliber (actually high pressure) pistols at lower cost by designing them to work by blowback. The most common ways to do this are to strengthen the slide return springs or increase the mass of the slide, or both. Thus Hi-Point.

My experience firing high pressure blowback operated pistols is very limited---but it's more than enough. My SIL's husband had a Hi-Point 9mm that retailed for less than half of what Glocks were going for at the time. That was what was good about it. It was very unpleasant to shoot. Extremely stiff slide return spring(s) made it difficult to chamber a round manually, but manually was the only way there was because it didn't have a last round slide return stop---naturally. The slide was massive and it slammed back at amazing velocity each time the gun was fired.

I would never own a Hi-Point pistol, but I would own a Hi-Point carbine. In fact, I've come close to buying one several times. All that's stopped me, actually, is that to me they're strange looking, not graceful. (Plus, I own a Marlin carbine chambered for .38spl/.357, so my pistol caliber carbine needs are already met.) Blowback operation makes no difference with a long gun. The bolt (long gun equivalent of a pistol's slide) can be massive and the spring can be stiff, and it doesn't matter. The greater weight of the weapon absorbs much of the recoil, and your shoulder can withstand far more recoil than your hand, anyway. Many of the famous, cheaply made submachine guns of the world are (or were) blowback, including the Sten, the Soviet PPSH, and the American M3 "grease gun". During WWII US manufacturers got the price of a Tommy gun---a locking breech weapon---down to $45. The British could build a Sten for $5.

All the best, Stan

I think you misread what I wrote. I didn't say anything negative (or otherwise) about the feeding reliability of Hi-Point pistols. What I said was that in my single episode of shooting a Hi-Point 9mm pistol I found the recoil to be very unpleasant. Other 9mm pistols I have fired include Berettas, Brownings, CZ's (52's and 75's), H&Ks, Glocks, S&W's, Stars, Tokarevs, and Walthers---all locked breech pistols, none of them unpleasant to fire. The Hi-Point, the only blowback operated 9mm pistol I ever fired, recoiled in a way that I thought was more uncomfortable than most .357 magnum and .44 magnum revolvers I've fired. For me it had to do with that overweight slide slamming back above the line of the grip in my hand. It's not because I'm timid, either. I love to fire hot loads through huge handguns, but I like them to be engineered for it. I'm not a masochist.

All the best, Stan

As for the HI Point carbine, I have replaced 4 stocks for people. All 4 failed at the same point and they were not abused by the owners. If you really must have a carbine look at the Rugers or the after market kits that can be purchased for either Glocks or full sized 1911s.

All Hi-Point Firearms carry a Lifetime, No-Questions Asked Warranty.

If any Hi-Point Firearm is ever need of service, please call 877-425-4867

Whether you are the original purchaser, or a third-hand owner, your Hi-Point firearm will be repaired free of charge.

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Just curious - why are you replacing the stocks? I thought (never had to send mine in) they went back to the factory for repairs and replacement of parts.

About any quality handgun .38 and above would be a good choice, but if situation allows, I would opt for a 12ga with BB or #4 buck. Plenty of decent sized pellets and better chance of hitting an intruder in a suprise encounter. If I were only going to have only one firearm in the house, it would be a 12ga.(and I'm mostly a rifle and handgun shooter). Large shot sizes are:

000 .36" 00 .33" 0 .32" 1 .30" 3 .25" 4 .24" BB .18" 2 .150"

I'm not a High Point fan. I'd rather have a used, quality, name-brand shotgun...or a Glock.

I have no connection to Summit Gun Broker other than being a customer.....

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I had heard that the HI-Point is a pretty reliable inexpensive handgun. Haven't heard about the long gun.

Let me just say, that they are without a doubt one of the more low end manufacturers you can buy from. Buy a self defense firearm that is at least dependable and well made from a reputable manufacturer so that you know it will function 100% in the event you need it.

As far as 9mm vs .40....if you want cheap inexpensive plinking...get the 9mm. If you want something that will stop an intruder, the .40 takes it hands down.

Go to www.gunbroker.com and look and see if you can find something. Usually you can score a pretty good deal here.

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