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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

OT water source heat pumps

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bil b va

09-28-2007 15:27:43




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anyone have experience with water source heat pumps ? my 14 year old york air to air is starting to have problems and i am thinking about a water source heat pump . my well has a 19 gpm capacity and i have a ravine that crosses my property . any information appreciated .




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john *.?-!.* cub owner

10-02-2007 19:44:02




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 Re: OT water source heat pumps in reply to newriverboy, 09-28-2007 15:27:43  
I have owned a Water Furnace with the Super D-heater for nearly 20 years, and am happy wiht it. both dependable and economical to operate. My one regret was putting in a horizontal loop instead of going for the extra expense of a vertical loop. It would be more efficient, especially withe the extremely hot dry summers we have had the last couple of years.

Regarding the open discharge, many areas require a second well to return the water to the ground, which you may want to investigate if you live where any kind of permit is required. Another thing to think about is the amount of water it will require, especially when it is hot. your well should handle it, but remember the drain on your well will increase over what it has been, as well as wear on your pump. I have also wondered if hard water would result in the heat exchanger needing regular cleaning.

There is a lot of practical information at www.waterfurnace.com

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Kestrel in CT

10-01-2007 16:45:21




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 Re: OT water source heat pumps in reply to bil b va, 09-28-2007 15:27:43  
I have a Waterfurnace water to water heat pump installed last winter. It's hooked to a vertical closed loop system and works great. Also I have a desuperheater on the compressor that transfers excess hot water to my electric domestic hot water heater when used in the cooling mode.

Problem is electric rates here in Connecticut are 2nd highest in the nation after Hawaii.
I'm thinking of putting up a solar array on my barn roof to slash my kwh usage in half. More $$$$$ either way.....

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Mark in WA

09-29-2007 08:08:30




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 Re: OT water source heat pumps in reply to bil b va, 09-28-2007 15:27:43  
In North Carolina we had an open loop system where we drew water from one well and dumped into a second well. The system worked fairly well and was fairly efficient. The only issue we had was that we couldn't draw drinking water and water for the heat pump out of the same well because the diameter of the well didn't allow for seperate pumps and having the two on the same pump caused water pressure issues. So, we dumped the heat pump water into the well that we drew drinking water from and as a result had slightly warmer tap water in the summer which was a little annoying. When we build a new house I will definitely put in a water-to-water heat pump, but this time I will use a horizontal closed loop system. Closed loop systems require only a very small pump (1/5th horsepower I believe) to move the water in the loop compared to an open system with a well pump so you get better efficiency there, plus digging a second well is expensive and dumping that much water on the ground is a big draw on ground water. The reason we went with an open loop design in North Carolina was because we were in sand soils and so the heat transfer was poor - if I was doing it again, though, I would have had a bunch of truckloads of clay brought in to act as a thermal mass and used a horizontal closed loop. A closed loop design is also nice in that the pump is easily accessible and, barring an idiot on a backhoe, there is very little to go wrong with the closed loop in the soil.

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Ohio Case

09-29-2007 07:00:36




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 Re: OT water source heat pumps in reply to bil b va, 09-28-2007 15:27:43  
Go to WaterFurnace.com there is alot of information on the site that will help. Its my opinion (20 years heating contractor) that a horizontal ground loop is the way to go, sometimes on a well system sand can get into the system & tear up the pumps, also when on a well you depend on the pump for the water to heat or cool your home, so if the well goes down, you could be out of water as well as out of heat!

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runwoolf

09-29-2007 03:17:43




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 Re: OT water source heat pumps in reply to bil b va, 09-28-2007 15:27:43  
we heat/cool a 2700 sq ft house for $130 per month in SW VA with a closed loop system (horzt). Two years old and so far no problems. House has six inch walls and is well insulated.



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pair-a-dice farm

09-28-2007 18:29:34




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 Re: OT water source heat pumps in reply to bil b va, 09-28-2007 15:27:43  
I've got one that I heat and cool with. I think it does a better job heating than cooling. Unless it gets below 10* or so. I have 2 wells I pull out of one and put it back in the other. I can heat my house cheaper than my neighbor can with diesel (about the same size) and I could do a few things to make my house more efficient.



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SDE

09-28-2007 17:58:18




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 Re: OT water source heat pumps in reply to bil b va, 09-28-2007 15:27:43  
Mine does not heat the house very fast. When the system is on, it will run a long time in comparison to gas. I needed a service call to get it started for the second season that I had it and it has been service free since and I had it put in about 14 years ago.
It is an open system and two years ago the discharge pipe froze shut toward the end of the winter season..
SDE



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djfarmer

09-28-2007 17:52:52




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 Re: OT water source heat pumps in reply to bil b va, 09-28-2007 15:27:43  
My brother put in a heat pump system. It sucks water up out of his well, somehow extracts heat from the well water then dumps the water outside on the ground. His house sits up on a hill above the dirt road in front of his house. In the winter the water runs down the hill freezing and building up over the season. Last year the local town board contacted him thinking that his septic system was flooding the area. The amount of water the system spits out makes me wonder what they are going to do to the water table if they get more common.

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buickanddeere

10-01-2007 04:50:38




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 Re: OT water source heat pumps in reply to djfarmer, 09-28-2007 17:52:52  
He just dumps the water on the surface? What about erosion and mosquito breeding ? If it's an open system using two wells in & out of the same aquifer. Its going to do nothing to the water table.



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Thho

09-28-2007 16:08:49




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 Re: OT water source heat pumps in reply to bil b va, 09-28-2007 15:27:43  
We have a closed loop system with vertical loops. It works great. It is efficient and, so far, maintenance free.

Terry



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jhill52

09-28-2007 15:54:08




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 Re: OT water source heat pumps in reply to bil b va, 09-28-2007 15:27:43  
I live in the Thumb of Michigan and have had one for 15 years. I would never heat any other way. It has been totally reliable. I heat and air condition for about $600 a year.



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jhill52

09-28-2007 15:58:59




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 Re: OT water source heat pumps in reply to jhill52, 09-28-2007 15:54:08  
I should add that my Utility has a Dual Fuel program, I have a fire place that could supply heat if they need to shut the power to my heat pump off. For this I get my electricity for my heat pump for 6 cents / kilowatt-hr. If you have to pay the regular price the cost to heat would double. Also my Heat pump provides all my hot water when it is running.



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