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STEVE/ US ALLOYS

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Brian

06-20-2001 22:28:30




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STEVE, HELP, WHATS THE DIF. TWEEN INNERSHIELD AND OUTERSHIELD? HAVING TROUBLE WELDING VERTICAL WITH INNERSHIELD AND MY LN-7 & MILLER BIG 30A [CC] WHATS THE CHANCE OUTERSHIELD & CO-2 WILL LET ME RUN VERTICAL? THE JOB IS 3/4 IN. AR400 ONTO A CAT 773 ROCK TRUCK BED THANKS.




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FRED

06-23-2001 15:26:42




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 Re: STEVE/ US ALLOYS in reply to Brian , 06-20-2001 22:28:30  
I have had very good luck with my SA250 and LN22 using NR202 5/64. in all positions. Welds v/up very well, high deposition wire. NR311 very good for flat and filits. FRED



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Steve U.S. Alloys

06-21-2001 06:29:11




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 Re: STEVE/ US ALLOYS in reply to Brian , 06-20-2001 22:28:30  
The "terminology" you refer to Brian is a brand name terminology only. Another common neologism is "dual shield".

What you need to look at is the AWS classification. This will come very close to describing the uses and characteristics of the filler metal you need. Not all identically classed wire is equal, however.

You will most likely require a wire that will make multiple passes in less than ideal conditions at times amd if the wire is of a general purpose variety it's range of use will be more beneficial to you. I imagine the "innershield" wire is an open arc wire of the T-3 or 4 variety. The T-3 is limited to 1/4" thick metal and single pass only. It is also limited to the flat and horizontal positions. The T-4 is a low penetration wire electrode for flat and horizontal positon but can be multipassed.

An E71T-1 will run single or multiple passes in flat, horizontal, vertical up, and overhead positions. It requires an external shielding gas of CO2 or Ar/Co2. It is used extensively in structural steel welding and on earth moving equipment.

There are new wires that are not described by the AWS. Many of these bear the description of AWS "G" or "GS" wires. Only the manufacturer of these wires can give you the proper parameters and so forth. Some of these are high deposition wires and some are not. You may find one of those that works very well but which one is best can only be determined impirically I'm afraid.

IMHO the E71T-1 is something you can get along with in as much as the commodity type wires are concerned. Steve

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Mark Kw

06-21-2001 07:20:23




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 Re: Re: STEVE/ US ALLOYS in reply to Steve U.S. Alloys, 06-21-2001 06:29:11  
Brian,

If I read your post right, you are using a CC machine for the power source. This is going to be at least 85% of your troubles. CC and flux core don't mix well at all. You can get away with some work in the flat and OH positions but forget about verticals completely. You need a good CV machine or flip the truck on it's side.



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Steve U.S. Alloys

06-21-2001 10:28:02




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 Re: Re: Re: STEVE/ US ALLOYS in reply to Mark Kw, 06-21-2001 07:20:23  
Marks right about the Miller Constant Current machines capability of running the self shielded wires w/o the optional CV-3 package. Miller rates that machine for FCAW welding at good to fair even with the option installed.



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Mark Kw

06-21-2001 11:09:28




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: STEVE/ US ALLOYS in reply to Steve U.S. Alloys, 06-21-2001 10:28:02  
Brand of machine does not matter in this case. A CC machine will not run any MIG wire worth a snot because the wire is designed to work only with CV power. The up and down of the voltage kills the performance of any wire product unless someone has come up with a wire that will run on CC.

Like I said before, you can get by running wire on a CC machine but it is serverly limited in application. If you don't do a lot of wire work that would justify dropping $11000+ on a new welding machine, then you are better off just getting a decent big bore stick electrode and go that route. With the machine you have, you should have no trouble running a good 3/16" or 7/32" XX18 stick to get the deposition rate you need to keep the time down.

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Brian

06-21-2001 22:49:31




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: STEVE/ US ALLOYS in reply to Mark Kw, 06-21-2001 11:09:28  
thanks for the info, the welding supply store guy said to get the adapter to run gas on the LN-7 and run outershield wire [flux core & CO2] then I should be able to run vertical.What do yo think? I agree a cc and flux core = snotywelds. untill I find a 11,000 dollar bill I'll have to burn stick.



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Steve U.S. Alloys

06-22-2001 07:50:12




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: STEVE/ US ALLOYS in reply to Brian, 06-21-2001 22:49:31  
The part# for the CV-3 is #042-045 (field installed version). The suggested list from Miller is $447.00. This kit should also include a 14 pin connection to facilitate remote control. Ask them if they'll stand behind the performance of that machine with this conversion installed. The Miller company offers a AC and polarity reversing switch as well for that machine.

The E-71T-1 should be the AWS designation for the wire your supplier mentioned.

That LN-7 is obsolete now. I'm not sure you can get any options for it still. I happen to have the last manual that Lincoln had in their possesion for the LN7.
Steve

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Butch

06-22-2001 07:22:58




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: STEVE/ US ALLOYS in reply to Brian, 06-21-2001 22:49:31  
Brian, We had one of those outfits at a place I worked several years ago. All new from Lincoln; 600 amp rectifier welder, LN-8 feeder,cart, boom, everything. They bought the thing to weld liners in Euclid end dumps. I belive the wire was NR-211. We never could make the thing weld out of position worth a hoot, neither could Lincoln's factory reps. They finally sugested converting the outfit to gas shielding. Never worked correctly that way either. They ended up parking the whole outfit in the corner and replaced it with a Miller. Thanks to Mark, I now know why it didn't work. Don't waste your money on the conversion to gas shielding with that unit unless your going to place the power source also. Back then Lincoln also recomended a root pass with 7018 stick on every weld. Kind of defeats the purpose doesn't it?

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Steve U.S. Alloys

06-22-2001 07:56:40




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: STEVE/ US ALLOYS in reply to Butch, 06-22-2001 07:22:58  
Hi Butch,
The NR 211 is a T-11 wire. I have heard numerous complaints regarding its "user friendliness". You are not alone in your opinion of that wire.
Steve



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Mark Kw

06-22-2001 18:54:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: STEVE/ US ALLOYS in reply to Steve U.S. Alloys, 06-22-2001 07:56:40  
I have some Lincoln NR-311 innershield in 7/64" that won't do nothing but flat and at that it's still nothing to be proud of no matter what you do with it.



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Butch

06-22-2001 19:52:25




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: STEVE/ US ALLOYS in reply to Mark Kw, 06-22-2001 18:54:03  
Mark, That is what we had, not 211. Been a while. Lincoln got the sale on that outfit because they said we could put down something like 80lbs an hour welding in those liners. They were 1" T-1 steel plate. The gun on that LN-8 was rated at 800 amps and weighed about as much as one of the 110V migs they sell know. It had a big aluminum heat shield so you didn't get your gloves burned off at high amps. We were working in a 50 X 80 building and in about 30 minutes you couldn't hardly see the floor for all the smoke.

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jim

06-22-2001 23:29:01




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: STEVE/ US ALLOYS in reply to Butch, 06-22-2001 19:52:25  
i run nr-211, with big 40 or sa200, ln25, cc. all the time. for novice it may be easier to weld vert. down. lincoln has innner sheild guide book for free that you may find useful. on used beds or buckets you will often run into problem with dirt inbedded in parent metal. in this case you can run first pass with 6011(ac) or 6010 (dc). try starting with .068 nr-211. on cc machine set amps at approx. 190. this will work. unless you are doing something else wrong. i have done countless buckets and beds using this method. you don't need to BUY anymore gizmos.

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Steve U.S. Alloys

06-23-2001 10:56:45




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: STEVE/ US ALLOYS in reply to jim, 06-22-2001 23:29:01  
Hi Jim,
The Big 40 is now sold as a cc/cv unit in gas and diesel. There are also cc units in gas and diesel. The Big 30A was designed as a SMAW machine and the CV-3 was opted as a way to make the machine more versatile. While not ideal, the CV-3 may be a good way to go for someone who needs FCAW capability. If the dealer will stand behind its performance, a man doesn't have much to lose by trying it.

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