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Tool Brands

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Big Jim

06-19-2001 10:07:02




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I would like to hear some opinions on wrenches and sockets. I have some cheapo Chinese tools. They have a tendency to round off nuts, especially when you're trying to get something loose that's real tight. I borrowed a Snap-On wrench from a friend. It worked well where the cheapo wrenches wouldn't. Obviously a quality tool. I hear the prices on Snap-On tools are $$$$. How does Snap-On compare to other more reasonably priced tools like Sears Craftsman, Wright, Allen, K-D, etc. All opinions welcome!

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hopefultech

02-13-2004 11:02:16




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 Re: Tool Brands in reply to Big Jim, 06-19-2001 10:07:02  
I'm a 2nd year apprentice auto technician. I've got a mix of tools in my toolbox: Snapon, Mac, Mastercraft, and Husky. The Husky and Mastercraft are great value for the DIYer but they do not stand up to the day to day use of an auto shop.



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Big Jim

06-21-2001 10:17:44




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 Re: Tool Brands in reply to Big Jim, 06-19-2001 10:07:02  
Thanks for all the responses. Interesting to hear other opinions. It seems that Craftsman has the overall concensus on the best warranty and value. I think that is the way I will go.



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Larry Garbarek

06-20-2001 13:10:04




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 Re: Tool Brands in reply to Big Jim, 06-19-2001 10:07:02  
Guess who pays for the lifetime guarantee?

The buyer, of course.

The last I heard, Sears has to increase their selling prices to you by 17% to cover the costs of claims/returns on Craftsman tools.

I know for a fact that the heavier duty Armstrong product range with their lifetime guarantee had so few returns that the costs of tool replacements was not calculated into the selling price.

I can state this as my office was alongside of the man at Armstrong who established prices.

I'm not suggesting that you buy either tool, but, please note that you don't get lifetime guarantees for nothing.

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GPWT

06-20-2001 09:35:56




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 Re: Tool Brands in reply to Big Jim, 06-19-2001 10:07:02  
I got a 1/2" drive Williams socket set as a gift back in '80 and have been using it since. I don't know how their current tools are but their older stuff is excellent! Does anyone have any feedback on their current product?



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Dave 2N

06-20-2001 08:38:22




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 Re: Tool Brands in reply to Big Jim, 06-19-2001 10:07:02  
As additional information:
When considering air tools, some of the MATCO, MAC and Cornwell models are made by Ingersoll-Rand.
Some of the recent impacts added to the Sears/Craftsman line are also made by Ingersoll-Rand; also, Sears just picked up an I-R sander and ratchet.
Japanese tools by KTS are good; they supply a lot of air tools for the automotive after-market and they brand-name for I-R and others.
Chinese and Indian tools? Buyer beware.

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Dave 2N

06-20-2001 08:42:16




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 Re: Re: Tool Brands in reply to Dave 2N, 06-20-2001 08:38:22  
Also, some MAC air tool models are made by Ingersoll-Rand.



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Nolan

06-20-2001 04:36:53




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 Re: Tool Brands in reply to Big Jim, 06-19-2001 10:07:02  
Consider your warranty also when looking at tools. As good as the tool may be, a warranty can make or break the longterm worth of the purchase. Snap-on vs Craftsman is an excellent example.

Craftsman has an unconditional warranty on their hand tools. No matter what you've done to it, if it breaks or fails to perform, it will be replaced.

Snap-on has a conditional warranty. The tool must fail in normal use, not be modified in any way, and not be considered worn out.

So use a cheater bar, and you voided your Snap-on warranty. Grind it to fit, and the Snap-on warranty is voided. Wear it out, and again the Snap-on warranty is gone. In each of these cases though, the Craftsman warranty will still apply, and you will receive a new wrench.

There is also the ability to enforce the warranty. Sears stores tend to exist in every town. While the on the shelf line up has gone down, the warranty still applies, and they will replace, even if they have to order the replacement. This can be a bit arduous if you've got one of their professional line tools. But if it's one of their generic wrenches, you'll walk out with a replacement in hand.

Snap-on first requires you to find the truck. If you work on a place that is on the drivers route, and you break a tool just before he arrives, this isn't bad. But if you aren't on a service route, it's quite a pain. As is breaking a wrench on Thursday and having to wait until Tuesday for the truck to arrive.

Snap-on also requires the tools to be sent back to corporate headquarters for inspection and warranty determination. Now if the driver knows you, he might take the risk and swap out a tool for you on the spot. But if you're just a person who flagged him down, forget it. He isn't about to gamble by giving you a new tool and hoping the corporate inspection determines that replacement was warranted. Because if the corporate headquarter inspection of the tool says nix on the warranty, that driver is out the cost of the replacement tool he gave you.

I've been through this with both companies a number of times.

Lastly, there is also the matter of how a tool feels to you. The very thing that many people like about Snap-on wrenches is exactly what I don't like about them. They are thin and smooth finished. So they hurt my hand when I'm really cranking on them, and they are slippery as all get out when oily. For my hands, I prefer a thicker webbing and a roughened finish. YMMV.

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John ne.

06-19-2001 22:12:57




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 Re: Tool Brands in reply to Big Jim, 06-19-2001 10:07:02  
I just have to put this in here, a fellow was vacationing in Korea. He found a hardware store, looking at the tools he was amazed to see almost all american makes. Looking at genuine made in Nebraska Vise-Grips, he asked the store owner if he carried any Korean made tools? The store owner said no, only good tools. And added, only Americans can afford to buy cheap tools. Enough said, John in Nebraska.

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John

06-19-2001 21:49:41




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 Re: Tool Brands in reply to Big Jim, 06-19-2001 10:07:02  
For most tools I think Craftsmen is a good brand to buy. If anything ever goes wrong (even if used inappropriately) you just return & replace no questions asked. I recently replaced a ratchet and a few sockets that are 20+ years old. For a few specialty items, like impact sockets, it is probably better to go with a heavier brand.



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Brad Wies (DC-4 DUDE)

06-19-2001 19:46:03




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 Re: Tool Brands in reply to Big Jim, 06-19-2001 10:07:02  
Hello, I am a mechanic in a garden tractor repair center, snap on are only good if not oily, I prefer mac tools, but for the diy'er I recomend craftsman, good luck,-Brad Wies



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Mark Kw

06-19-2001 16:23:03




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 Re: Tool Brands in reply to Big Jim, 06-19-2001 10:07:02  
Things have changed a lot over the last three years. There is no more Mac dealer here so I'm now stuck with a bunch of high dollar tools that no longer have a no cost replacement warranty, $10 per tool plus shipping back to Stanley. Thanks to this, no longer will I consider any Stanley product no matter what name they are sold under.

Danaher dropped the ball big time. I'm sure back when Larry worked for them, the tools were good. Not no more. Take a good look at C-man and Allen tools. The finish is horrible and the quality of the actual design flat out stinks. The dropping quality across the board from Danaher barely makes them any better than the cheapest of the cheap china stuff sold by harbor freight. I shelled out over $100 for a set of Armstrong flare nut wrenches that were not even chromed properly not to mention the gouges and rust and rust pits that were plainly obvious. Hate to say it but the finish on the last set of $10 junk ones from H-F was superior to this junk from armstrong. What tops it off is Danaher sending out a sales flier with promotions that were 2 months out of date. Danaher is now ranked with Stanley since their attitude of "screw the customer" is the same for both companies.

The best bet for price and quality by far is Kobalt. You can buy anything they have on line so there is not even a need to be close to a Lowe's. The line is somewhat limited to common tools but they are constantly expanding their selection.

Task Force is not that bad either. The finish is lacking on some of their stuff but for a cheap off the shelf import tool line, the actual usable quality is much better than C-man.

For specially designed tools for working on trucks and cars, Snap-On is the way to go. You can't beat their designs on specialty tools for doing what they say they do or fitting where they are supposed to fit.

I have just purchased some Wright tools however, I have not had the chance to really put them to the test under abusive conditions. The overall quality is definitely there for both use design and finish at a very reasonable price.

For impact sockets, it's kinda hard to beat the cheap Harbor Freight ones for service life, quality and especially price. While the sizes are somewhat limited, you can hammer away on these things day after day with not a bit of trouble.

I also have a 20" 1/2" drive flex head Bench Top ratchet I picked up at K-Mart. While I did not expect much from this tool, it has taken a good deal of serious abuse and keeps right on cranking without fail. I don't know how the rest of their stuff is but if it is as good as this ratchet, then it's also good quality for the price.

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Larry Garbarek

06-19-2001 14:17:42




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 Re: Tool Brands in reply to Big Jim, 06-19-2001 10:07:02  
Having been in the management of Armstrong Bros. Tool Co. for years and a seller of U.S. made tools around the world, I have some background and a lot of opinions.

For the non-professional, there are 3 "best buys" in my opinion.

Craftsman may not be what it once was a half century ago, but it is reasonable and Sear's is convenient for many people if the tool breaks as it often does.

Husky from Home Depot is made by Stanley and I especially like the high polish range of wrenches.
The basic design is similar to Stanley Proto which is a very good professional and industrial range of hand tools.

We don't have a Lowe's near us so I do not know much about their Kobalt range except that it is made by either Snap-On or its wholly owned subsidiary, J.H. Williams.

Industry insiders agree that Snap-On is the highest quality range of hand tools made anywhere. Maybe overpriced, maybe distributed in an expensive manner, but, unquestionably high quality.

Based on Snap-On's knowledge of what a hand tool can be, I suspect that the Kobalt range might be your quality leader.

Second for me would be Husky as I like their appearance and heritage.

Probably 95% of the wrenches, sockets, ratchets and similar mechanic's hand tools under the Craftsman brand are made by Danaher who also produces Armstrong, KD, Allen, MATCO and others. Danaher knows how to produce decent tools and their Armstrong range is excellent for industry or professional use.

Biggest problem might be Sears who sometimes mixes lesser quality tools under the Craftsman brand. Thus, you might think you are getting Danaher quality but you actually are getting less without there being any way of knowing what you are buying. Sure you have a guarantee, but, that doesn't help you to finish the job quickly when a tool breaks.

I would stay away from many imports except for tools that you might throw in the tool box in you boat for emergencies.

However,most Japanese tools are very good. This incudes Kal, TOP, Koken, KTC, Aigo, Lobster, Daido and a couple of others.

Taiwan tools can be good or almost unacceptable and there is no easy way of telling which tool is which without a destruction test.

Chinese tools are usually made from sub-standard steel and might look good but are not consistenly reliable.

There is a Mexican tool company called Urrea who make excellent wrenches and sockets. Only problem is that they are hard to find.

The Europeans make tools ranging from acceptable to excellent and beyond. Trying to unravel which European tool is worth considering would take quite a while but a relative waste of time as they are difficult to find and hard to get service on warranty claims due to there being few dealers in the U.S.

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ferrell

06-20-2001 04:52:18




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 Re: Re: Tool Brands in reply to Larry Garbarek, 06-19-2001 14:17:42  
I, tools in my toolboxes that back to WWII that my got after the war ,even have some old Dunlop these were the pre craftman sears . I donot know how many SNAP ON ,MAC CRAFTMAN AND s k wayne tool plus OTC AND KEN TOOLS. On the older tractors you can get buy with a basic hand tool set from SEARS.I, even have some old WESTEREN AUTO WIZARD WRENCHES ALONG WITH PROTO TOOLS.CRAFTSMAN tools have one of best warrents for the poor man.

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Phil Lothrop

10-07-2004 19:00:28




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 Re: Re: Re: Tool Brands in reply to ferrell, 06-20-2001 04:52:18  
I have always worked with tools, professionally and as a home-owner and hobbiest. Now, I buy and sell tools for a living. I've been doing this for 10 years.

I know tools, good and bad, and I can tell you that any tools made in the last 20 years, regardless of brand, will not outlast an old Proto, Plomb, Craftsman, Herbrand, Armstrong, Bonney, Lectrolite, Durochrome, or Snap-On. It's the steel, gentlemen!

I have a 3/4" Bonney breaker bar, made around 1938, that will twist any new adapter or extension into a pretzel. If it doesn't bust your new Snap-On $28.00 socket, it'll turn your tractor on it's side!

God bless you all and watch your knuckles!
phil

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philm

06-19-2001 14:58:26




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 Re: Re: Tool Brands in reply to Larry Garbarek, 06-19-2001 14:17:42  
You seem to be well versed in this subject. What about MAC tools. I believe they are distibuted in a similar way to Snap-ons. Have been told by at least one pro mechanic that they are almost as good as Snap-on. Have you heard of them? Any good?



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Larry Garbarek

06-19-2001 15:15:27




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 Re: Re: Re: Tool Brands in reply to philm, 06-19-2001 14:58:26  
MAC is made by Stanley and they are excellent. Almost as good as Snap-On as you say. Really nice quality but Snap-On is thought to spend more per year on research and developement than any other hand tool manufacturer in the world and this investment shows up in new, innovative tools on a regular basis.

For most of us, the cost of Snap-On, MAC, MATCO, Cornwall and other van delivery services can be hard to justify. First, the van dealer needs to pay for his visit to you by selling you tools.

Second, he has to spend his gas to visit you, and third, these brands sometimes are a little expensive to begin with as they are met for serious professionals or industrial people who have deep pockets.

If you can afford to pay for and need this service, by all means support you local van operator. He has to make a living too.

For me, it seems more logical for me to buy my tools at a store when shopping for other things. I know the store has to make a profit too, but, I believe it is less per tool.

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Larry Garbarek

06-19-2001 15:12:28




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 Re: Re: Re: Tool Brands in reply to philm, 06-19-2001 14:58:26  
MAC is made by Stanley and they are excellent. Almost as good as Snap-On as you say. Really nice quality but Snap-On is thought to spend more per year on research and developement than any other hand tool manufacturer in the world and this investment shows up in new, innovative tools on a regular basis.

For most of us, the cost of Snap-On, MAC, MATCO, Cornwall and other van delivery services can be hard to justify as the dealer needs to make a living, he has to spend his gas to visit you, and these brands are a little expensive in the first place.

If you can afford to pay for and need this service, by all means support you local van operator. He has to make a living too.

For me, it seems more logical for me to buy my tools at a store when shopping for other things. I know the store has to make a profit too, but, I believe it is less per tool than the van operator who is trying to make a living by the profits he earns from visiting you.

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Red Dave

06-19-2001 12:18:14




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 Re: Tool Brands in reply to Big Jim, 06-19-2001 10:07:02  
I agree about the cheapo tools. I don't like junk tools no matter where they are made, including the USA. Snap-on tools are usually the Rolls-Royce of the industry. Unfortunatly, I can't afford Snap-on or a Rolls. I still like Craftsman for most things although I don't think they are as good as they once were. I have some Craftsman tools that were my Dad's from the '60's (& earlier) that I like better than what I see on the shelf today. Still, they are good as gold on their warranty. For electronic and electrical work I am a fan of Klein and Xcelite. For general mechanical S-K, Craftsman and some others are pretty good. Getting harder and harder to find anything not made in China anymore though.

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Dean

06-19-2001 12:17:49




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 Re: Tool Brands in reply to Big Jim, 06-19-2001 10:07:02  
You tend to get what you pay for. I have some nice tools that get a lot of use and some less nice tools that get used once in a while. You're doing the right thing by asking because sometimes a brand will have decent tools for the most part with horrible problems on just some of the tools. For example, Craftsman ratchets are garbage. I know because I've replaced 6-7 of them. But at least they hand you a new one across the counter without much fuss.

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Tom

06-19-2001 18:01:39




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 Re: Re: Tool Brands in reply to Dean, 06-19-2001 12:17:49  
I haven't had any trouble with Craftsman ratchets until I put a pipe on them, and with a long enough pipe you can break anything. I will admit the length of pipe needed to break them seems to be getting shorter over the years. Still, all considered, Craftsman is the best deal for most of us. If you like Snap On you could get some of the most commonly used tools by them, and the rest Craftsman. Same a lot this way and still use Snap On for most of your work.

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Tom

06-19-2001 18:01:16




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 Re: Re: Tool Brands in reply to Dean, 06-19-2001 12:17:49  
I haven't had any trouble with Craftsman ratchets until I put a pipe on them, and with a long enough pipe you can break anything. I will admit the length of pipe needed to break them seems to be getting shorter over the years. Still, all considered, Craftsman is the best deal for most of us. If you like Snap On you could get some of the most commonly used tools by them, and the rest Craftsman. Same a lot this way and still use Snap On for most of your work.

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Tom

06-19-2001 18:01:17




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 Re: Re: Tool Brands in reply to Dean, 06-19-2001 12:17:49  
I haven't had any trouble with Craftsman ratchets until I put a pipe on them, and with a long enough pipe you can break anything. I will admit the length of pipe needed to break them seems to be getting shorter over the years. Still, all considered, Craftsman is the best deal for most of us. If you like Snap On you could get some of the most commonly used tools by them, and the rest Craftsman. Same a lot this way and still use Snap On for most of your work.

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DumOleBob

06-19-2001 11:54:16




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 Re: Tool Brands in reply to Big Jim, 06-19-2001 10:07:02  
Right on about US made tools being good!

Don't know if they are "Made in the USA", but don't miss looking at Home Depot's Husky line. Like most others they are guaranteed for life - your's not the tools. No questions asked return policy!

Also, look on Ebay for auctions with lots of positive feedback selling all kinds of name brand tools - including Snap on, etc, etc! I've bought a bunch of stuff like that at a huge discounts!

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dumolebob

06-19-2001 11:57:48




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 Re: Re: Tool Brands in reply to DumOleBob, 06-19-2001 11:54:16  
Actually, I know of broken Craftsman tools that Sears took back in exchange from the Grandson of the original purchaser. So maybe they are guaranteed 4ever....



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Tom

06-19-2001 18:05:17




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 Re: Re: Re: Tool Brands in reply to dumolebob, 06-19-2001 11:57:48  
Never had a question on any craftsman tool I took back. Even when I had a couple of ratchets, a breaker bar, and a handfull of whatever size socket it was I was trying to get off the tractor wheels with after they had been rusting on for 25 years. This was a project tractor I am working on.



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Pappy

06-19-2001 11:05:05




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 Re: Tool Brands in reply to Big Jim, 06-19-2001 10:07:02  
I have many brands of tools (wrenches-sockets) and all of the USA tools are good. I have Craftsman, Bonney, Herbrand, Proto, S-K, Wright,and a couple of others. No Problem with any of them.



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Greaseman

06-19-2001 13:05:50




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 Re: Re: Tool Brands in reply to Pappy, 06-19-2001 11:05:05  
I have alot of tools and have used Craftsman extensively, I agree that the ratchets pretty shoddy. I have one set that is Pittsburgh Forge from Harbor freight, low price and have broken only a few sockets (just remember to keep proof of shipping). The good thing about Sears and SK is the return/exchange policy's. I would not reccomend going with Central tractor as they do not like to return things of that nature without receipt and to headaches.

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BillD

06-19-2001 13:55:31




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 Re: Re: Re: Tool Brands in reply to Greaseman, 06-19-2001 13:05:50  
I`ve used Craftsman since I got out of the service in 1954 and have replaced 1 ratchet 1/2" drive I Buy the cheapos for bending and modifying for one time use Still have my original set of tools with many additions of course If I was a professional mechanic I would use nothing but Snapon For the every day user Craftsman will be a good investment



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Tom

06-19-2001 18:07:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Tool Brands in reply to BillD, 06-19-2001 13:55:31  
Agree



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