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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

FORD F-250 SPARKPLUG BLOWOUT

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SKYBOW

09-03-2007 12:21:00




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I have a 2001 F-250SD that I bought used. 5 months ago it made a terriblel noise on startup. I found that a Plug had come out. It had damaged the new type unit on top of the plug. I went to Ford and they knew exactly what had happened although this seemed a bit rare to me. I got a new plug and the holder for $127. They said,"If the plug tightens in the hole it is OK, but if not, the threads are stripped and the heads must be replaced-$3700." I put the new plug in and everything was OK for about a month. Then the same plug came out. In doing some research I found that this is a very comon problem with the Ford aluminium head motors In 1999 Ford went to an aluminium head. THere were only a few threads to hold the plug and they were being ejected right and left. There have been fires and other damage due to this plug problem. This is a problem on all the AL heads from Ford from 1999-2003. In 2003 they redesigned the head and put in more threads-The problem went away. If you Google this you can see 1000"s of cases of the plug ejection and still Ford says it is OUR fault for overtightening the plugs-It happens on factory installed plugs too. I bought a kit from TIME-Sert. It has the tools and inserts to fix the problem as a helicoil will not hold the plug under the pressures of the engine. They directions are very clear and printed on a laminated sheet so you can take it right to the motor with you. The head does not have to be replaced as this repair can be made in the vehicle. I am not a gear head of any sort but I did mine in less than 3 hours. I took my time and double-checked things alot. If I can do it anyone can. I am willing to help anyone living within a reasonable distance of Des Moines should they have this problem. Ford is of no use. A gov recall is not going to happen either. Let me know if I can help.

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corey H

09-04-2007 14:35:28




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 Re: FORD F-250 SPARKPLUG BLOWOUT in reply to SKYBOW, 09-03-2007 12:21:00  
Have 2000 ford F-450 with the v 10 and this has happened twice to my truck. If you complaiin enough they will put new heads on your truck. Just don't take no for an answer.



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Bob - MI

09-04-2007 08:03:09




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 Re: FORD F-250 SPARKPLUG BLOWOUT in reply to SKYBOW, 09-03-2007 12:21:00  
As a guy who sells castings for a living I have to tell you that this is clearly an example of poor engineering and a move to save about $1.00 per head. Heck yes this is a manufacturer's defect. Wrong material and design for the application.

I have moved in and out of the automotive area a couple of times in my career and have seen the dark side of a company trying to save a nickle. One of my favorite examples are the cars with the plastic intake manifolds. Yes, the new resins are good at higher temperatures but they warp over time. If the engine coughs they can explode too. Replacement is common with them and they can cost close to $1,000.00. This is all because they saved $20.00 on the part.

Another good one is disk brake rotors. You ever have to replace the rotors because they are warped? Too thin to handle the heat. Thin because they are cheaper. Made overseas with no control on alloy chemistry. But they are cheaper.

Why do people buy Toyotas and Hondas? Simply because they have better engineering focus that's not driven by their purchasing group trying to save pennies and putting their suppliers out of business.

I can't tell you how many times I had a domestic automotive engineer tell me that "they only have to make it through the warranty period".

Glad to be back in aerospace manufacturing again!

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Hobo,NC

09-04-2007 04:38:35




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 Re: FORD F-250 SPARKPLUG BLOWOUT in reply to SKYBOW, 09-03-2007 12:21:00  
I have read on IATN that the rear cylinders can B done with a air ratchet, must have been acceptable if not the fine folks their would have hammered him rite hard.

I have not had the good fortune to run into one yet.



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Bob

09-03-2007 18:49:49




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 SCREW the customer... in reply to SKYBOW, 09-03-2007 12:21:00  
How would you like to be the service manager and sell a SCREW JOB like that to folks because of a factory defect, for which there is such an elegant and CHEAP aftermarket repair?

I don't know how folks like that can live with themselves!



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soundguy

09-04-2007 07:57:49




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 Re: SCREW the customer... in reply to Bob, 09-03-2007 18:49:49  
Happens on the lincoln's too. had an aviator at work last year or so.. blew a plug out.less than 5700 miles on it ( factor plugs. etc.. ). . ford had to replace the head under warranty.. boy.. they LOVED that... We unloaded it after that.. while it still had 'new' value to it..

Soundguy



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Jon Hagen

09-03-2007 19:48:33




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 Re: SCREW the customer... in reply to Bob, 09-03-2007 18:49:49  
I agree Bob, Ford SHOULD own up to the problem and atleast sponsor an "at cost" repair of those heads instead of trying to sell you a new set of heads that you wouldnt need if the engineers had their heads where it should be. Those little steel thread repair kits that seem to have worked so well in thousands of aluminum small engine heads should be no different in the Aluminum Fords. As to Ford or the dealership pushing the service manager to sell new heads when a repair is fairly simple, must not care about repeat customers.

I remember stopping at the Moline dealer in Garrison possibly 25 years ago to get parts for my low production Big Mo 400. I needed a clutch disc, which the owner/ parts guy had on the shelf and I am sure would have liked to sell.
He looked up the price and said "thats outrageous,Moline wants $200 for that disc " He looked at my old clutch disc and said "the metal parts are good, take it to the clutch and brake shop in Minot, and I bet they will reline it for $20" He was right, they did reline it for $20. I have always rememberd how he was more interested in me NOT getting screwed by the company than in making a sale. Have done business with the man many times since that deal.
i suppose if I sat down and thought about it a bit, I could name a half dozen other business places where they have gone out of their way to try to save me the customer money.

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Skybow

09-04-2007 08:38:18




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 Re: SCREW the customer... in reply to Jon Hagen, 09-03-2007 19:48:33  
I bought the first plug and the electronic connector that goes over it at the Ford dealer. They charged me $127. The second time it blew I thought I'd try the local auto parts store. I didn't figure they would have the part but they actually had it on hand. It was the exact same box as I got a the Ford dealer. They only charged me $53 for the same amount of items. $74 mark up on items I shouldn't have needed to buy in the first place....I dearly love my truck but right now I HATE FMC

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JCSinGA

09-03-2007 16:18:43




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 Re: FORD F-250 SPARKPLUG BLOWOUT in reply to SKYBOW, 09-03-2007 12:21:00  
I had one repaired locally on a truck very similar to yours, mine was the 3rd hole back on the passenger side. I was very pleased with the results I paid around $400 for the repair but that included a new coil pack as somehow it had damaged the old one when the plug blew. I put 2000 miles on the repair and sold the truck today never had a minutes problem. Now I need one of those time-sert kits for the head bolts on a Northstar Cadillac engine.

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Jonfarmer

09-03-2007 15:47:38




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 Re: FORD F-250 SPARKPLUG BLOWOUT in reply to SKYBOW, 09-03-2007 12:21:00  
Heads?, let me guess Ford is going to make you buy both heads even though you only need one bare casting on the troubled side.



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Travis

09-03-2007 14:26:17




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 Re: FORD F-250 SPARKPLUG BLOWOUT in reply to SKYBOW, 09-03-2007 12:21:00  
Skybow,

If you don't mind me asking, how much did your kit cost? I bought a kit from Lisle tools that ran me $600 and comes with 10 inserts. I agree completely that it is a terrible design. You should take a look at the non Super Duty trucks, be thankful that yours isn't built like them. Only the first two holes on each side can be done on the truck, the rear holes I'm pretty sure are inaccessible without pulling a head. There is a local shop in Osceola that has done these with regular Heli-coils, I'm not sure how long they have lasted though. The neighbor tells me that the Ford dealer in Chariton has a guy come in and repair them for $100 a hole. I'd like to see how he does it. Anyway, sorry to hear of you bad luck. BTW, I go through and torque the spark plugs on every one of these Fords that I fix, I can't believe how many are loose!

Travis

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Skybow

09-04-2007 08:31:04




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 Re: FORD F-250 SPARKPLUG BLOWOUT in reply to Travis, 09-03-2007 14:26:17  
Travis,
I ordered mine on-line direct from Time-sert. Got 5 inserts and a kit to install them. It was all first class stuff. Only cost $390 with shipping. I had a guy here local who used to work for Ford. He wanted $1000 for parts and $500 for labor to change one head. If my inserts didn't work I was going to go with him. I'll keep you posted on how my work holds up.



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azharry

09-03-2007 14:21:28




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 Re: FORD F-250 SPARKPLUG BLOWOUT in reply to SKYBOW, 09-03-2007 12:21:00  
Ford has you replace the head instead of repairing the head because there's is no guarantee that the thread insert won't fail too. Yes, this is an expensive and bitter pill to swallow but, I have also seen spark plug inserts fail in Ford engines. It has been rare compared to the number of inserts used but, it can happen. It's not just trucks. Some 4.6 engines in Crown Vics have the same problem. There are numerous spark plug thread repair kits on the market. In fact the design flaw (or over tightening) has created a line of tools just to fix blown spark plug holes on Ford engines. I've used the Lisle kit with success.

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02XLT4X4

09-04-2007 10:25:46




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 Re: FORD F-250 SPARKPLUG BLOWOUT in reply to azharry, 09-03-2007 14:21:28  
The replacement heads are of the same design, I would rather waste $600 for a kit than $3000+ for a head and have it do the same thing over again. They didn't change them until the 3 valve engines came out, then the plugs break off during removal rather than shoot out on their own.



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dhermesc

09-04-2007 05:24:42




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 Re: FORD F-250 SPARKPLUG BLOWOUT in reply to azharry, 09-03-2007 14:21:28  
The 4.6 does have a similar problem but not nearly so bad as the 5.4. I have never heard of the older 4.6 blowing a factory plug. Replacing the spark plug is very tricky and if you manage to start turning it in without cross threading it you have to have torque wrench as the spec is only 15lbs, any more and you'll strip the threads.

Just guessing but the truck is a 2001, making it 6 years old, anyone want to guess what the former owner did? I betting he figured at 6 years it was time to change the plugs, ruined the threads (bet you have more than one ruined they just haven't blowed yet)and sold it rather than spending the money to fix it. The immediate failure after purchase and then the amount of time it took to fail a second time just seems to fit too well.

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John T

09-03-2007 14:10:55




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 Re: FORD F-250 SPARKPLUG BLOWOUT in reply to SKYBOW, 09-03-2007 12:21:00  
For a long time Ford officially denied existence of any problem whatsoever and told everyone "first time we ever heard of that" YEAH RIGHT. There was some legal action floating around last time I heard to get em to recall but some dealers still stick their heads in the sand and deny that only a few threads in an aluminum head could ever cause plugs to blow out lol

John T



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Charles (in GA)

09-03-2007 12:49:11




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 Re: FORD F-250 SPARKPLUG BLOWOUT in reply to SKYBOW, 09-03-2007 12:21:00  
I have seen others mention this problem on this forum. Glad to know there is a decent fix out there and good that you were successful.

Charles



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