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Oddly Marked Open End Wrenches??

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raytasch

06-14-2001 12:10:38




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Cleaning up some hand tools that belonged to my father and noticed some brands I do not recognize and some that are marked wrong as to SAE standards. These tools date to WWll or before.
1. 9 1/2" long, open end marked W&B logo inside a diamond. Also has a circle containing an anchor. Made in USA. This wrench is marked 1/2 that measures about 29/32" on one end and the other end is marked 5/8 yet measures about 1 3/32"

2.Open end 5" long and has the following marks vertically on the handle: 1 over a horizontal dash and a 4, as in 1/4 below that a B5W and then 5 horizontal dash and 16 as in 5/16 then BSF. This end measures as to fit a 1/2" fastener. Other end measures 7/16" and has following marks:
3 horizontal dash and then 16 as in 3/16 under which is BSW under which is 1 over a 4 as in 1/4. Under this is BSF. Between these two sets of marking coming from each end of the wrench is 1944. The brand on this wrench is Snail Brand.
I have several other strangely labeled hand tools but won't bore you with any of these unless someone is interested.
Why the mislabeling? Anyone recognize the logos? Were these specialty wrenches. My father ran owned a country store as well as an auto repair business and sometime he would loan money or trade food or gas for tools. Appreciate any knowledge or ideas. ray

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John Garner

06-19-2001 19:22:01




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 Re: Oddly Marked Open End Wrenches?? in reply to raytasch, 06-14-2001 12:10:38  
ray --

I'm pretty sure that the WB-in-a-Diamond trademark was that of Whitman & Barnes. The last I heard of Whitman and Barnes, they had gone from being a hand tool maker to a cutting-tool specialist, making drills, taps, and dies. I'm not sure if W&B is still in business or not. I don't have any idea about the Anchor & Circle mark.

As the others have indicated, the sizes stamped on the wrenches are the sizes of the bolt (nominal thread diameter) that the wrench opening fits, and since the wrench opening must be slightly larger than the bolt head, and the bolt head must be quite a bit larger than the bolt thread, the openings will be significantly larger than the size. This sizing methodology was not only used for British Standard sizes, but for some old US standard wrenches also.

Bolt heads are sized by a variety of formulae under a variety of different standards . . . here in the US before WWII, the common head sizes were (1.5 times thread diameter) for most fasteners and for US Heavy fasteners it's (1.5 time thread diameter plus 1/8 inch). The English used a different set of formulae, which I have forgotten, but it resulted in some sizes that seemed really odd to those of us familiar with the US standards . . . but the English did design their fasteners so that the same-size wrench OPENING could be used on different-series fasteners. Thus, you have a single wrench opening that fits both a 3/16 inch British Standard Whitworth fastener and a 1/4 inch British Standard Fine [thread] fastener. (I suspect that you've misread the wrench or that it has been damaged enough to make reading difficult; I'd just about bet that the "B5W" you cite is in reality "BSW".)

During WWII the US, Canadian, and British government worked to develop a new standard thread system that would be used by all 3 countries for war goods. This standard, the Unified Standard, went into widespread use in the US for inch-sized fasteners, and is still used today. I believe that as a part of the Unifed Standard agreements, we modified our nut-and-bolt sizing system to increment larger head sizes in 1/16 inch steps rather than the earlier 1/32 inch steps.

You may remember some of the now-oddball wrench sizes that were once common, 19/32 inch, 21/32 inch, 25/32 inch, and 31/32 inch come to mind almost immediately . . . and some of these sizes are still catalogued by the major US tool makers simply because there are still people working on pre-war equipment.

To illustrate the head-sizing formulae, consider first a 3/8 inch bolt; the "normal" bolt-head and nut size is 3/8 inch X 1.5 = 9/16 inch, while the US Heavy nut is 3/8 inch X 1.5 + 1/8 inch = 11/16 inch. For a 1/2 inch bolt, the "normal" bolt head or nut is 1/2 inch X 1.5 = 3/4 inch; the Heavy head is 1/2 inch X 1.5 + 1/8 inch = 7/8 inch.

I'd guess that the predominant application for the smaller sizes of US Heavy nuts today is in machine shops and larger manufacturing plants, where they are used extensively on "jigs and fixtures". The larger sizes of US Heavy nuts are used when making up bolted-flange pipe joints, and here I'd guess that refineries and process plants are the big users.

More than you wanted to know, right?

John

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DaveInMI

06-15-2001 01:57:35




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 Re: Oddly Marked Open End Wrenches?? in reply to raytasch, 06-14-2001 12:10:38  
I bought a set of these wrenches in the mid-60's because American wrenches didn't exactly fit the nuts and bolts on my 1953 MG. I wonder if some British old car nut would think these wrenches were valuable?



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John Ne.

06-14-2001 20:14:56




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 Re: Oddly Marked Open End Wrenches?? in reply to raytasch, 06-14-2001 12:10:38  
pre-WWII, standard wrench sizes included things such as 19/32,,, and 17/64,, I agree its likely they are British Standard, also sometimes known as Whitworth Standard? Have seen many sets from before 1930 that are marked stud diameter size and not nut size,,, think the machinist trade did this too. John in Nebr.



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Larry Garbarek

06-14-2001 15:21:29




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 Re: Oddly Marked Open End Wrenches?? in reply to raytasch, 06-14-2001 12:10:38  
Can't explain the strange openings, but "BS" on wrenches probably means "British Standard."

The Brits also had many unique ways of marking wrenches.

For example, they would mark wrenches with the bolt diameter rather than the across the flats of nuts. Thus, a 1/2" bolt would require something like a 1" wrench to turn the nut for this size bolt. The 1" opening wrench would be marked 1/2".

While this method has a certain logic behind it, it does seem strange to the way we have become accustomed to choosing our wrenches.

The Snail brand was made in England up to 20 years ago. Don't know after that. I never saw a catalog so don't know what they made, but, the wrenches I saw were all single end, open end tools. And, they were probably the worst finished wrenches I've ever seen. That doesn't mean that they were bad, just ugly!

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rain

12-04-2001 16:03:24




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 Re: Re: Oddly Marked Open End Wrenches?? in reply to Larry Garbarek, 06-14-2001 15:21:29  
not a comment just a question...my father recently passed away and in going through the garage i found a set it looks like of old tools, wrenches i assume since the are open-ended. one end of each has the markings for example, 1/2 and one end 7/16 the stamp USA and DURO-CHROME one one end. there are 13 with the different sizes and there is also a adjustable plyer type thing that has the markings INDUSTRO MFG COP, CHICAGO, USA. It adjusts to 3 sizes. There is also something called a spark plug adjusting tool with the markings in a diamond shape, with the name KASTAR (in the middle), incorporated, made in USA. Also a tool that looks like a file on one end,the other end smooth and round at the end and it to is adjustable, there is star with a k in the middle and pat. pending on one end. the are all in a little black fake leather case with pockets that rolls up and can be tied. Any help with this would be appricated. thanks

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Joe (Wa)

06-14-2001 20:23:21




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 Re: Re: Oddly Marked Open End Wrenches?? in reply to Larry Garbarek, 06-14-2001 15:21:29  
Larry's opinion is right on. Consider the date and wartime conditions. Metal was at a premium and immediate identifiable sizing did not matter as long as the wrench could be produced fast & be adequate for the task at hand. Joe



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