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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

PTO operation on Dodge 3500 4x4 auto

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Wardner

08-14-2007 19:13:48




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I have a 1998 Dodge/12 valve Cummins Ram 3500 with a 241HD auto trans/transfer case. I have been thinking about installing a wet system to run hydraulic motors.

The six bolt PTO opening is on the transfer case. I presume the operator starts the process with the transmission in N, selects N on the transfer case, engages the PTO, and shifts to 1, 2, D, or R on the transmission. I think later Dodges and Fords (probably Chevy too) have a wire and/or program that tells the drive-by-wire engine management system that the engine is connected to an operating PTO.

I suppose the fool proof gear selection is to only use 1 or R. The other two gears might be inclined to shift if the load varies. The down side to using 1 or R is the pump has to be larger, weigh more, and be more expensive.

Does my truck have a way to lock in a gear above 1st? I'd also welcome any advice on what gear to use or whether the whole notion of running a PTO on this truck is prudent. Let's not get side-tracked with discussions about hydraulic engineering concerns such as reservoir capacity, oil temps, cubic inch per revs, torque vs RPM, etc.

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David - OR

08-15-2007 10:13:44




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 Re: PTO operation on Dodge 3500 4x4 auto in reply to Wardner, 08-14-2007 19:13:48  
Your truck has a 47RE trans.

The 47RE trans is shifted electrically. The powertrain control module (computer) applies current to solenoids that in turn move hydraulic valves which re-route the trans fluids to activate the clutches and bands and thereby select the various gear ratios.

If you got a wiring diagram for the truck, it would be possible to break the wire connections and insert switches between the computer and the solenoids, such that you could force any gear you want. A lot of guys with the Cummins Diesel do something like this to force the torque converter clutch to lock or unlock.

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Wardner

08-15-2007 21:46:32




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 Re: PTO operation on Dodge 3500 4x4 auto in reply to David - OR, 08-15-2007 10:13:44  
That sounds interesting. Perhaps I should talk to an engineer at Chelsea/Dana. It would be convenient if they have the terminal block, harness, and switch assembly ready to mount on the transfer case gear shifter. I probably should check with Dodge as well.

Can the torque converter be switched and locked at any engine rpm?



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J Schwiebert

08-14-2007 19:24:19




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 Re: PTO operation on Dodge 3500 4x4 auto in reply to Wardner, 08-14-2007 19:13:48  
Your PTO selection is going to be based on the make and model of the transfer case. Also if you 6 bolt opening, if it is above the oil level you will need a PTO with a lube pump option. Next thing (and I used to teach classes on how to select the correct PTO for Chelsea) you will find that Chelsa has different gear rations for the PTO. Also since you brought it up, PTO's are rated in pound feet or torque and then for intermittant and or continous duty. Your turn with answers to the above next. I may have one or two Chelsea books around that explain all this that I could mail to you.

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Wardner

08-14-2007 20:28:52




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 Re: PTO operation on Dodge 3500 4x4 auto in reply to J Schwiebert, 08-14-2007 19:24:19  
I have been to Florig in Boston. The two guys there only know how to build the box from a stock-shelf loaded with gears, castings, shafts, and bearings. They couldn't even tell me how to operate the system. My outline above is just my guess. I'll have to give one guy credit for crawling under my truck. I asked for printed sales and engineering data and they had none. After we got the tranny data, he printed out the various options that were available. They are based on approximately a dozen build-outs of the the 442 series. The 100 series will also fit but he says they are discontinued. That's a shame because I have two of them that could be reconfigered.

Oil level is not a problem.

I am aware there are duty cycles, torque and HP limits. I doubt if I will be using more than 15HP. Sometimes continuously. Motors might run a conveyor, 4000W generator, winch, dump hoist, and air brake type air compressor.

I would appreciate any printed material you have. Email me and I will send my address.

Still need to know how the auto transmission will handle the variable load.

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Dave in Tx

08-14-2007 21:18:19




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 Re: PTO operation on Dodge 3500 4x4 auto in reply to Wardner, 08-14-2007 20:28:52  
Wardner, fellow here has one that has a switch to lock trans in 1, 2 or 3. Don't know where he came up with it, but suspect he had it built. Will ask him when I next see him

Dave



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Wardner

08-15-2007 21:50:49




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 Re: PTO operation on Dodge 3500 4x4 auto in reply to Dave in Tx, 08-14-2007 21:18:19  
OK Dave,

Thanks in advance for your effort to find the source for the switch.



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