Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Tool Talk Discussion Forum

vertical welding

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
ww

07-30-2007 04:18:43




Report to Moderator

I can't seem to make the archives work. can anyone give me a fast course to vertical welding i don't care what it looks like just so it will hold. about two inches




[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Farmall MD

07-30-2007 14:15:16




Report to Moderator
 Re: vertical welding in reply to ww, 07-30-2007 04:18:43  
There is no such thing as a "fast course" in welding. I've been welding/fabricating for about 23 years, 135 fan and Bill in IL explained it as good as I could, but you didn't give us: 1)what you are welding. 2)What you are welding with. 3)Thickness of material. 4)Type of joint you are welding(butt, lap, T)this makes all the difference in explaining it better.

If it needs to hold, get someone you know to do it for you. Welding is a skill that don't come overnight.

Run a few practice pieces before attempting the real thing, Good luck. Doug N

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
135 Fan

07-30-2007 10:54:45




Report to Moderator
 Re: vertical welding in reply to ww, 07-30-2007 04:18:43  
I'll assume you're using stick welding. Generally uphand (bottom to top) is recommended because it has more penetration and is a lot stronger. If you're only welding 1/8 inch steel downhand would probably work. Again I'll assume your welding something heavier than 1/8. With uphand what you're trying to do is make a shelf for the puddle to build up on as you go up. If you wanted to cheat a little, you could run a downhand first pass with a 6011 (6010 DC) using an up and down whipping motion to control the puddle and keep the slag out of the way. 6011 has better penetration than other rods especially downhand. Then you could go over that with an uphand pass with a rod like 7018 preferably or 7014. I wouldn't recommend 6013. Weave side to side making a little step each time you move across the middle and pause just slightly at the edges so they fill in without undercut and travel a little faster across the middle so the weld doesn't build up too much. You don't want to weave too wide but a little wider is OK because it is easier to control the bead shape. I wouldn't go wider than 3/8 of an inch. Use 3/32 rods as they will be easier to control and set your heat a little lower than for flat position. Try to do a few practice welds on some scrap pieces first. If your weld doesn't look good grind it out and try again. It's no use doing a repair that isn't going to hold. Hope this helps. Dave

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Welder Bob

07-30-2007 10:14:15




Report to Moderator
 Re: vertical welding in reply to ww, 07-30-2007 04:18:43  
The secret is to get one pass of the rod to solidify enough to keep the weld from sloughing off before you make another pass.You can do this by breaking the arc, moving the rod tip out of the puddle momentarily, moving the arc vertically for a moment at the end of each pass.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bill in IL

07-30-2007 07:17:43




Report to Moderator
 Re: vertical welding in reply to ww, 07-30-2007 04:18:43  
Verticle down is simply dragging the rod down at about a 60 to 75 degree angle to the direction of travel. Holding and angle like this helps to keep the weld puddle up in place as you move along. You will not get as good of penetration going down due to heat the fact that heat rises up and away.

Verticle up is harder to do cause the heat travels up with you as you weld. Verticle up is simply multiple horizontal welds stacked on top of one another and you will use a "Z" pattern to acheive this making short horisontal welds 3/8 to 1/2 inch long the moving up and across to the next layer and lay another bead. Hold your rod angle at 60 to 75 degrees again so the rod is pointed up to hold the weld puddle up. You will get much better weld penetration using verticle up vs down. Do not try to lay too much weld down in one pass with either processes as it makes it harder to control, make several passes. Use a fast freeze rod as mentioned earlier 6010 or 6011. Turn the heat down 10 to 20 percent of what you would use for flat position to help control the puddle. MIG welding will use the same type techniques.

Hope this helps.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Jerry/MT

07-30-2007 12:26:29




Report to Moderator
 Re: vertical welding in reply to Bill in IL, 07-30-2007 07:17:43  
Bill in Il,

I wish my welding instructor would have explained vertical welding to me as as simply and clearly as you did in your post above. I probably would have learned how to do it then.
It's a great way to visualize the process.

I can't wait to try your technique. Thanks again.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
KEH

07-30-2007 05:03:45




Report to Moderator
 Re: vertical welding in reply to ww, 07-30-2007 04:18:43  

I only know about ac stick welding so if you are using a wire welder I can't help you. However, for a stick welder, practice on scraps to get right heat to make a good flat weld. Heat not should be too hot. Starting from the bottom of the weld makes a stronger weld because the slag is not falling down into the crack and interferring with the bead. Starting at the top is easier to do for me and makes a smoother weld.
Either way, make one pass, allow to cool a bit, chip off slag, and lay another bead. Repeat until satisfied. You could also practice on two vertical pieces of scrap. Of course, use scrap of the same thickness as the piece you are welding.

KEH

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Ryan - WI

07-30-2007 04:54:04




Report to Moderator
 Re: vertical welding in reply to ww, 07-30-2007 04:18:43  
How you do it depends on what you are welding with.

If you have a fast freeze rod in a stick welder you can just run bottom to top like you would a regular bead.

If you are using a mig welder (which is not a fast freeze process) it is a bit more difficult. I usually start on the bottom and make about 1/4" tall tack welds one just above the other until I get to the top. Let the weld cool a bit before applying the next one and it helps to serve as a ledge so that gravity doesn't pull the weld all out.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Whaldo's right here.

07-30-2007 13:12:17




Report to Moderator
 4 angle grinder. in reply to Ryan - WI, 07-30-2007 04:54:04  
4" angle grinder.

Run a pass up.

Grind it clean and smooth.

Run a pass up.

If you have the heat right it will almost surely be leaving drippy jimmy durante' nose looking lumps.

grind those away. Make sure there is no voids and do it again.

If those drips are too prevelent you could drop the amps just a bit.

The more passes you make the warmer the weld area will become and you may find that by the 3rd or even the second pass, you need to drop the amps a bit.

If you can't get it to completely fuse from side to side (after grinding away to the root), raise the amps and move a little slower. You may want to slightly move side to side to keep the puddle working into both sides.

BUT!!! a real welder will stab it in there and carry a full puddle right up the middle to the top with little rod action!!!

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
135 Fan

07-31-2007 00:00:12




Report to Moderator
 Re: 4 angle grinder. in reply to Whaldo's right here., 07-30-2007 13:12:17  
Do some 3/16 inch (rod diameter) uphand 7018 on 100% X-ray welds for pipeline pig access tees and then we'll talk. Even a very slight weave makes vertical up easier. Straight stringer beads can be done but everything has to work perfectly including the rods. Any bit of finger nailing of the flux can screw up the weld. A slight weave helps to alleviate this. A real welder wouldn't have had to ask. You shouldn't have to play with the amps too much as the more passes you put on and the wider you weave, it gets way easier to do. It's almost like putting one horizontal weld on top of the other. Just to confuse things even more on some really really critical jobs the procedure calls for all stringer beads because they have a finer grain structure and apparently slightly more strength. I prefer weaving. It's easier. Just the opinion of a "real welder". Dave

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy