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Stick welding with MIG welder?

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sam

05-31-2001 10:50:49




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Has anybody tried to set up a mig welder for stick welding? Most of my work can be done with MIG but there is the occasional job - like repairing cast iron with nickel rod - that must be with stick. The cables would be easy to hook up. The triggering on/off would be more difficult, but could probably be set so the electrode is "hot" all the time. I don't know how the voltage and wire speed settings would work.

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puff

06-01-2001 13:56:57




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 Re: stick welding with MIG welder? in reply to sam, 05-31-2001 10:50:49  
stick and mig use two differnt voltages, mig is cv and stick is cc. tig and stick are both cc and that is why you see more welding machines that do multiple stick and mig. some welders do come where tig, mig and stick functioins are capable but those are not as common. and a mig machine cannot be setup for stick



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sam

06-01-2001 05:50:38




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 Re: stick welding with MIG welder? in reply to sam, 05-31-2001 10:50:49  
Thanks for the feedback. I went to Link and found several choices of MIG wires for cast iron repair. The #925 wire is available in 5 pound spools, which makes it more practical for an occasional user like me. I plan to get some; I'll let you know how it works for me.



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Mark Kw

06-01-2001 04:55:40




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 Re: stick welding with MIG welder? in reply to sam, 05-31-2001 10:50:49  
Sam, I use a voltage sensing wire feeder off my engine drives for doing MIG. With the machine set for CV (constant voltage) for the wire, you can get a stick to run but it is not controllable because the amperage varies greatly. It can be done with rods like a 6010 or 6011 for making quick tack welds but nothing else.

When using a MIG machine, the voltage remains at a preset level and the current varies with the wire feed speed. A stick machine will allow the voltage to vary (normally from 80 open circuit to 15 volts during the full run of the rod) but the current will remain constant. If you try to do anything more than a short quick tack spot, all you will do is destroy your machine because of the over current condition you are causing when you short out the secondary windings with the stick electrode.

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Steve U.S. Alloys

05-31-2001 18:39:11




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 Re: stick welding with MIG welder? in reply to sam, 05-31-2001 10:50:49  
You might be surpised what's out there now for MIG/MAG welding cast iron Sam. I used to think that wire/gas was never going to replace stick for welding cast iron. I've lived long enough to see that all change. We produce a fabulous wire that does just that. They put it on a 5# spool too. That was smart thinking. Works well with TIG also.

I have been involved today with a manufacturer of natural gas components that involved joining a class 30 grey iron casting to a carbon steel pipe. Of all the filler metals and processes that were tried, that wire was one of two different consumables and two different processes that qualified during the pressure test. We've had good success in many areas with it. Steve

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Branden

05-31-2001 11:16:47




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 Re: stick welding with MIG welder? in reply to sam, 05-31-2001 10:50:49  
You will never make it work. GMAW and FCAW requires constant voltage to weld. Stick requires Constant Current. Your wirefeed welders are voltage only sources. The only way you will pull this off is if you have a CC and CV machine which I don't think you do.

Branden



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jimmyz

05-31-2001 22:25:07




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 Re: Re: stick welding with MIG welder? in reply to Branden, 05-31-2001 11:16:47  
you can stick weld with cv or cc.



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Branden

06-01-2001 10:06:44




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 Re: Re: Re: stick welding with MIG welder? in reply to jimmyz, 05-31-2001 22:25:07  
Could you explain how? Are there special rods? I'm all ears. I was told CC stick and tig, and CV for wire feed. I've never tried sticking with voltage, and from what I hear there is no point in doing so if all you are going to do is destroy your machine.

Branden



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jimmyz

06-05-2001 23:40:36




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: stick welding with MIG welder? in reply to Branden, 06-01-2001 10:06:44  
well , since you all are partial to miller. look into "Intellitig 4" precision controller. Some people like the weld characteristics using this method.



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jimmyz

06-05-2001 23:47:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: stick welding with MIG welder? in reply to jimmyz, 06-05-2001 23:40:36  
wrong unit. if i recall it might be hf251 freq. mach allows smaw with cv. but it can be done. but i wouldn't try it with my mig units.



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Branden

06-06-2001 10:44:39




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: stick welding with MIG welder? in reply to jimmyz, 06-05-2001 23:47:19  
Sorry, but you are still wrong. I own a HF-251D-1. These are tig modules that provide high freq. arc starts, depending if the switch is on or off for high freq, and were designed for Direct Current or Alternating Cuurrent ONLY. The manual says nothing about using it for Constant Volatage, but I will check again...

Also, with the HF-251, you have to set the out put at the machine anyway, CC/CV. The hf-251 is an accessory for your primary machine, such as a Trailblazer, Bobcat, Shopmaster or whatever machine, the welder is set to CC/CV and it does the welding, not the hf-251. I'm willing to bet that running voltage through the 251 would damage the unit. But you could stick weld through the tig module, but the welder would still have to be set on CC. There isn't a rod out there to be used with voltage, that I'm aware of, they all say use for DC+,- or AC. The last letter stands for current, not Volage. If you still think it can be done, let me know. I do appreciate your feedback, but I do disagree. The only way things are done, is by doing it the correct way, not the "it can be done to get you by", way. That is not the correct way, and will usually end up with something going wrong 99% of the time.

Branden

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