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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Double flare tool for brake lines

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frankiee

06-20-2007 16:38:03

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Am I that bad at double flaring or am I missing something.
Here's what is happening.
My brake lines are rusty so I bought a cheap double flare kit for $16 Canadian and went on the net and read instructions.
Practiced and practiced with a line I bought and all of them are crappy.

Is it me or the tool I bought.
Please be honest and tell me straight if is me.

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Nolan

06-22-2007 03:19:56

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Re: Double flare tool for brake lines in reply to frankiee, 06-20-2007 16:38:03

My experiences with cheap brake flairing tools have been poor. The cheap tools have too soft a metal and the tool deforms as fast as the tubing.

So using good tools, I still tend to fair poorly because I don't do it enough to remember how to do it well. And if I don't look it up, I screw it up.

Here's a pretty good visual walkthrough that should help you on the technique end at least.

Visual walk through of making double flares.

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frankiee

06-21-2007 08:59:55

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I think I got it now in reply to frankiee, 06-20-2007 16:38:03

I went to the auto parts store (walking) and got another 3/16 button.
This new one has a step to it which is 0.120 inch.
The old one I was using had no step so I was just using the height of the button which was 0.204 inch
BIG DIFFERENCE
Now I think I can do it proper.
All excited now and going out now.
I dont mind crawling around on the ground if I know I am winning but when things work out like a bad flare I hate it
Thanks to those that responded

PS
Even the dish in the button which forms the tube has a better shape to it.

Lesson learned: if I buy a cheap flare tool go buy good buttons

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john niolon

06-21-2007 08:46:10

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Re: Double flare tool for brake lines in reply to frankiee, 06-20-2007 16:38:03

Frankiee,

I don"t seem to be having the same problems... as long as I use a decent tool... My favorite is a RIGID brand (in a hand flaring tool) I"ve also got a hydraulic unit that is better than a shirt pocket.

I"ve got an article on my web page that shows how I do it...

Link

I"m assuming you"re doing the inner bend first(mushrooming the end) the the final flare actually flares out.

Oil on the die and mandrell help a lot and a good square cut on the tube is essential. cut it with a tubing cutter, not a hack saw.

someone mentioned using stainless tubing... I don"t think that stainless is meant to be double flared... common steel lines use 45degree double flare...stainless uses 37 degree single flare with the appropriate matched fittings..

hope it helps

John

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Vern-MI

06-21-2007 07:10:04

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Re: Double flare tool for brake lines in reply to frankiee, 06-20-2007 16:38:03

It is imperative that you use double annealed tube. Pre-flared tubing from auto parts stores is not annealed and may be nearly impossible to flare well with the tools available. You can get double-annealed stainless tube from www.inlinetube.com if you can't find it anywhere else. Bevel both the inside and the outside of the tube end before trying to double flare the end. Use a little grease or oil on the forming tool to allow the slide into the forming tool contour more easily. Remember the right double annealed tube is the only solution otherwise you are trying to push a column of tough steel into a shape it can't and won't conform too. Once you get the right tube it is real easy to make the double flare.

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frankiee

06-21-2007 07:12:45

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Re: Double flare tool for brake lines in reply to Vern-MI, 06-21-2007 07:10:04

Sounds like an answer
Thanks

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kidbob

06-21-2007 07:01:10

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Re: Double flare tool for brake lines in reply to frankiee, 06-20-2007 16:38:03

I have been using one of the cheaper flair tools and was having trouble with the tube sliding in the holder. I took the holder to a press and put a slight backward curve in one side of the clamp, this made it hold the tube good.

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bjr

06-21-2007 05:57:28

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Me Too in reply to frankiee, 06-20-2007 16:38:03

I've the Harbor Freight tool and have the same issues. Finally gave up a bought nearest length and put that on. Just must be a big club out there frustrated by tryin' to make power steering lines and brake line, and fuel lines and various hydaulic lines. bjr

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frankiee

06-21-2007 04:57:55

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Re: Double flare tool for brake lines in reply to frankiee, 06-20-2007 16:38:03

I got some measurements from my flare set that came with no instructions.
The large round part I will call the base.
The part the fits into the tube I will call the stem.

For the one I am using

3/16 base is .2inch stem is .2 inch

1/4 inch size base .175 stem .25

5/16 inch size base .175 stem .25

3/8 inch size base .175 stem .30

7/16 inch size base .175 stem .30

1/2 inch size base .180 stem .30

5/8 inch size base .180 stem .30

I am using the height of the base as a guide for how much sticks out of the clamp tool.
To me it seems to much.
I have to try to squish 0.2 inch of tube into that little space.
There are no other marks or recesses to go by.

Also to me the above measurements dont make sence to me. They seem to random to be graduated measurments.

I cant find an exact measurment on line to know if what I am doing is right or way too much.

Any ideas

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Bob

06-21-2007 05:53:39

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Re: Double flare tool for brake lines in reply to frankiee, 06-21-2007 04:57:55

The chart (at least as you posted it) is GOOFY.

It's showing more line sticking out of the flaring tool (.2") for 3/16" line than for the next 4 larger sizes.

Was the chart printed "in the Land of Almost Right"?

I'll try to remember to take a look at my set today, and post back the dimension for the 3/16" tool tonight.

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frankiee

06-21-2007 06:13:12

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Re: Double flare tool for brake lines in reply to Bob, 06-21-2007 05:53:39

I agree the values are goofy.
I measured all of them this morning
Those are the exact measurments which I carefully measured with my calipers.
Yes the 3/16 is actually larger then the 14 inch which is the next size up.
I decided I could not be that bad at it after 12 tries and reading several sites on the net and I am now convinced that it is the measurment that is wrong.
I cant find on the net an exact value in inches to use. They just say to use the gauge provided.
I guess I could find a garage downdown and bother them to get a measurement off of them.
I dont know any mechanics. I do work on my own.
I usually buy premade but I decided to do a exact picture perfect job this time so I wanted to cut the line the perfect installed length.
BUT I went and got the cheapest tool at the cheapest store in town.
But it should work if I knew the measure to use.
Thankyyou

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Roy Suomi

06-20-2007 20:50:16

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Re: Double flare tool for brake lines in reply to frankiee, 06-20-2007 16:38:03

I wish someone would tell me how to double flare tubing the right way..I've got 5 or 6 different sets in my shop..With each and every set I set the stick-out with the double flare die , turn it around and stick the pin into the tubing , start to crank down on the handle and it pushes the tube out of the split frame..I've got 3 or 4 sets with the wing nuts broke off from overtightening them..They still push back without flaring the tube..Seems like the split frame grabs the tube but the metal seems to gaul and then it moves back again..I'm about ready to buy the hydraulic one..I've just about resigned myself to buying the closest length and continue to be creative with my bends...I've got 2 Snap-On flare tools , An Eastman tool , A Mac tool and a KD.It's a pain in the arss running back and forth to the NAPA store to get the closest lengths..Thanks Roy

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frankiee

06-21-2007 07:10:12

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Re: Double flare tool for brake lines in reply to Roy Suomi, 06-20-2007 20:50:16

I do the same.
I can get it to lock if I reef on it real hard
I think I found the problem
There is no measure on the 3/16th button so I have just been using the height of it which is 0.2 inches.
By the time I try to crank it down to squish it, it either bends the tube sideways or bends the handle of the tool or it slips or I run out of energy.
I am now sure that the height of the button is way too excessive. I can get good results when I have a smaller amount sticking out of the tool.
I have seached books and the net for a measure I can use but I can not find one. They just say to use the gauge on the button. I dont want to go buy a more expensive tool just to get the measurement I am to use.
I think I will be forced to find a mechanic and buy him or her a coffee so I can measure the button they have.
I know. My fault for buying the cheapest tools there are. Matter of fact I have a good set at my dads place but it would take $25 of gas and time to go get it so I just bought a cheap set.

All I need is that measurement for a 3/16 which to leave out of the clamp.
I am going to do it right and not guess.

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frankiee

06-21-2007 04:13:33

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Re: Double flare tool for brake lines in reply to Roy Suomi, 06-20-2007 20:50:16

Im with you on this on Roy. Im a solid 210 lbs and my wrist hurts from cranking on that tools handle yesterday.
The others say they have no problem with this operation.
I tried a dozen times yesterday and they turn out crappy. Im doing 3/16 th line.
It must be you and I missing something because you say you have tried several makes and models and I also thru the years have tried different ones.
I set the recommended height and start cranking to get it flat with the tool. Usually it just goes sideways on me.
If it dont then it is too thin.
And I must be doing the same thing wrong that you are (maybe) because I have to crank so hard that the tool will slip or I just dont have the strength to turn it. I add a cheater and the handle of the tool starts to bend. All this is at the bench where it is nice and easy to work.

Can someone send some advice as to what I may be doing wrong.
Please

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TimV

06-21-2007 06:53:22

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Re: Double flare tool for brake lines in reply to frankiee, 06-21-2007 04:13:33

frankiee: one question--how are you closing the clamp? Typically, I find it works best to close it all the way on the end closest to whatever tube size you're using, then close the far end. This lets you use the mechanical advantage of the arms of the tube vise to tighten ensure the vise is fully tightened. I've got a couple of sets, including a NAPA one and a cheapie set, and haven't had problems with either.

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oldrustycars

06-20-2007 18:37:20

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Re: Double flare tool for brake lines in reply to frankiee, 06-20-2007 16:38:03

Hot Rod magazine has a little article this month about this very thing. I have never had trouble, I use a double flare tool from Snap On, and even from them it was only $45. if all else fails, just buy already flared tubing from the auto parts. and dont forget to put the nut on BEFORE you flare the tube. anyone who says they never forgot to put the nut on first is probably lying.

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TimV

06-20-2007 18:36:27

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Re: Double flare tool for brake lines in reply to frankiee, 06-20-2007 16:38:03

frankiee: double flaring is a pretty straightforward operation--is there a specific problem that you're having? Most problems are caused by not using the correct amount of "stick-out", but most kits have a measuring device (often built into the flare die) to make sure you've got the correct length sticking out of the flare tool.

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Bob

06-20-2007 16:56:21

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Re: Double flare tool for brake lines in reply to frankiee, 06-20-2007 16:38:03

I've had problems with a certain piece of tubing now and then, but, for the most part have pretty good luck. Practice helps.

I ream the cut end of the tubing, then de-burr the end of it by CAREFULLY lightly holding it square against a belt sender.

Then, clean and flare the nice, smooth square end of the tube. A little oil on the end of the tube and the tool seems to help, too.

Clean the tubing THOROUGHLY with brake cleaner and compressed air before installing!!!!

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