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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

NiCad vs NiMH

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Slowpoke

06-08-2007 01:24:24




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Can I replace the old dead NiCad sub-c batteries in my (12 volt Makita) 1210 battery case with NiMH sub-c batteries and be able to charge them in the Makita DC1290 Charger? The charger doesn't specify any type of battery, but maybe in the '80s when the drill was made, there were no NiMH batteries available. In other words, can I charge both NiCad and NiMH batteries in the charger?
Thanks




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Stephen R. Horton (Tx)

06-11-2007 10:22:26




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 Re: NiCad vs NiMH in reply to Slowpoke, 06-08-2007 01:24:24  
I just got done with this exercise. I had been putting it off for the last couple of years, and had a collection of 4 old Dewalt 18v batteries laying around and a couple of Black and Decker cordless tools with the batteries inside them/internal that were from about 20 years ago. Couple of years ago, I purchased a generic 18v battery for my Dewalt stuff that had NiMh cells in it. Its worked great, lasts a long time, and I know that my Dewalt Charger can handle it. (Strange Note: Dewalt has been selling NiMh batteries over in the UK for years, just google it) So a few weeks ago, I went onto www.batteryspace.com (I read in a battery forum that these guys have a direct relationship with some company in China that makes these things, so cheaper prices). I bought the latest and greatest 4200 mAh SubC cell batteries in bulk (ordered 20 of them with solder tabs). There were enough of them for me to rebuild 1 of my old Dewalt 18v packs and both of my old Black and Decker tools. Now, all 3 are like new again--actually much better than new. And it takes a VERY long time to run these things down. Of course on the Black and Decker tools, I'm careful not to leave them plugged in too long, as I'm not sure if they will overcharge and get damaged or not.

As for cost, this wasn't the cheapest route, and I have an Interstate battery nearby, and have looked at the online guys, but I really like having these batteries run so long. So much better performance than the batteries had when they were new...

The address the previous post about solder problems, the batteries with tabs come with tabs on both poles. You need to keep the rubber cover on the pole that you don't use--if you accidentally short some of them together, you'll get a big surprise! When you solder the tabs together, it takes a bit of patience, probably some fresh roslin core solder, and a lot of heat--if you've got a whimpy soldering iron, you'll be waiting a lot. I don't solder everyday, but I do it occasionally for work, and doing the 15 cells for the 18v pack took me less than 2 hours (and I was kinda watching TV).

good luck, Stephen

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Slowpoke

06-11-2007 10:59:25




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 Re: NiCad vs NiMH in reply to Stephen R. Horton (Tx), 06-11-2007 10:22:26  
Thanks for the info. I'm going to see what it takes to get the old battery apart first. I'll need to reuse the original welded-on output terminals on the new cells. If it works out OK, I'll order some new sub-c cells and make a "new" battery.



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Stephen R. Horton (Tx)

06-11-2007 13:12:35




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 Re: NiCad vs NiMH in reply to Slowpoke, 06-11-2007 10:59:25  
On mine, I just pulled all of the welded on tabs and wires off with a pair of pliers. The only thing I re-used was a plastic ring that sat on one of the cells that went up into the connector head that mated with the tool. The other end of the circuit was just a wire soldered to a tab on the cell. Note that when you pull off the welded stuff, it usually pulls a small hole in the old cell, so its not re-usable.
-stephen

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RayP(MI)

06-08-2007 16:38:31




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 Re: NiCad vs NiMH in reply to Slowpoke, 06-08-2007 01:24:24  
My experience with NiMH batteries in 2-way communications equipment (handitalkies) has been very disappointing. Suggest you go back to the NiCad.



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Gerald J.

06-08-2007 05:55:06




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 Re: NiCad vs NiMH in reply to Slowpoke, 06-08-2007 01:24:24  
The odds of NiMH catching fire with a NiCad charger is high. They demand drastically different treatment.

Gerald J.



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Slowpoke

06-08-2007 10:25:00




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 Re: NiCad vs NiMH in reply to Gerald J., 06-08-2007 05:55:06  
According to Primecell, the original charger can be used....or not. "Check your charger specifications". It seems that it just takes longer to fill a NiMh than a NiCd. A thermal switch may be added to certain batteries to keep them from overheating. So it's not clear if my NiCd can be upgraded to NiMh without a new charger. Upgrading and a new charger will cost about $100 for 1 battery. Rebuilding to original NiCd is over $60. As usual a new tool with two batteries will cost less.

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Gerald J.

06-09-2007 16:22:00




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 Re: NiCad vs NiMH in reply to Slowpoke, 06-08-2007 10:25:00  
"According to Primecell, the original charger can be used....or not. "Check your charger specifications"" What that means is that some chargers have the extra electronics to not destroy NiMH and some don't. And those that don't will do damage.

Gerald J.



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dan hill

06-09-2007 04:53:36




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 Re: NiCad vs NiMH in reply to Slowpoke, 06-08-2007 10:25:00  
If you can open the old pack you will usually find one cell dead or reversed polarity.Sub c nicads cost about 4.00 each.Old Dewalt packs are glued but some packs have tamper proof screws.I have an old Dewalt my son gave me that has seen a lot of use.The batteries are tired.Im looking for a new drill, will make sure I can open the packs.



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Slowpoke

06-09-2007 09:48:16




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 Re: NiCad vs NiMH in reply to dan hill, 06-09-2007 04:53:36  
I just now removed the NiCd battery pack from my 10 year old, 12 volt Makita case. It snaps together so I used two house keys to lift the locking tabs, then pulled the cells out. The only problem I see is removing the welded-on tabs and plastic cap that holds the charging terminals. 10 replacement cells are $20, a new battery is $50. Professional rebuilding is $61.

For tamper proof screw driver bits, try Harbor Freight. They have several sets of assortments, usually on sale.

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Gerald J.

06-09-2007 16:18:30




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 Re: NiCad vs NiMH in reply to Slowpoke, 06-09-2007 09:48:16  
Interstate battery stores rebuild tool batteries reasonably. It takes welding to put the pack together. Those that can be bought with solder tabs never line up right to make up a stack without shorting cells out.

It is possible from places like Digi-Key and Mouser Electronics to buy preassembled packs if they are in common configurations for not much more than the wholesale cost of the cells.

Gerald J.

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Joe Greathouse

06-08-2007 02:05:08




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 Re: NiCad vs NiMH in reply to Slowpoke, 06-08-2007 01:24:24  
Slowpoke,
Go to www.primecell.com in Bedford, PA, I'll bet they can help you. G-day.
J.G.



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