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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Gasket cement yes or no

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Ted in NE OH

06-07-2007 18:03:17




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When do you you use gasket cement when do you not. Paper, rubber cork gaskets. Both sides ,or one side. Head gasket, valve cover , oil pan. Are there any rules of thumb?




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Hobo,NC

06-08-2007 05:05:14




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 Re: Gasket cement yes or no in reply to Ted in NE OH, 06-07-2007 18:03:17  
Theirs no one answer to your question, it would b EZ"er to answer one question at a time. No one rule applies to one type of gasket, most professionals learn by the school of hard knocks (from what werked and what did not werk and by how much time it cost them) Some one had a leak-er on a 302 a week or so ago, theirs 3 or 4 different gaskets that will werk and depends on how its installed on how well it seals.

I will start with a cork gasket used on a tin cover (valve cover- front timing cover- valley pan etc)

Do not put enny thing on cork that will make it slippery, The cork will squeeze out and break when you tighten the cover down. . Its ok to put silicon on joints but not on all the cork gasket. I glue 1 side with 3M 8001 adhesive, seal joints with black or gray silicon. Reason I use 3M 8001 izz to hold the gasket in place during instillation, it also needs a few min. to set up and depends on temperature, hot it sets up fast cold may need 5 min to set up. It izz tempting to install with out adhesive and may werk with out enny problems were you are at cuzz the gasket does not werk in a environment were their are positive or negative presser like were gaskets have to live on a engine. Cork will live a long time if it izz not affected by heat. Were heat izz a problem I had rather use a good silicon. Make sure yet sealing surface izz "flat and clean" as possible. I have my reasons as to why I glue it down, one would B I had to pull a engine to replace the oil pan, valley pan gasket cuzz it blew out on a 440 Chrysler. I don"t think it would have happen if i would have glued one side with 3M 8001 adhesive.

Example-- Farmall 113/123 timing cover its tin and not flat. Beat out straight as possible git x-tra clean and seal with gray RTV, use no gasket. You could use black RTV like Permatex "The right stuff" but not Permatex black RTV out of the cheese cans that"s not labeled "The right stuf" its not the same and not a good RTV yo use. The Gray RTV silicon sealer izz far superior than enny other I have used but not as good as "The Right Stuff" (TRS). So why not use TRS all the time. Once opened TRS has a shelf life of a week may B. So I kin not afford to wast $15.00 to seal a one time job were the gray silicon will do as well. But theirs covers that I will go the extra mile to seal with TRS.

If I plan to use RTV and not a gasket and its in a place I kin not git clean I perfer to use the gasket, RTV has to have a X-tra clean surface or its a wast of time.


The use of RTV depends on the location were you plan to use it, its a different question and needs to B answered in a different post.

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T_Bone

06-08-2007 01:25:23




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 Re: Gasket cement yes or no in reply to Ted in NE OH, 06-07-2007 18:03:17  
Hi Ted,

I found that new after market gaskets just won't hold well for water or oil applications. So I now use a very small bead of Permatex red or copper RTV on any application with water or oil. I haven't torn a part off in 30yrs since I've been using RTV to reseal a gasket leak.

I think where alot of people get into trouble with gasket sealers is they use too much sealer. RTV only requires a very thin bead in the center of the flange and needs to set-up for 10min or so before assymbly.

T_Bone

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jack12345

06-07-2007 21:07:16




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 Re: Gasket cement yes or no in reply to Ted in NE OH, 06-07-2007 18:03:17  
I have used RTV with in place of "O" rings in a Ford 800 backhoe diff that required very large "O" rings and dealer wanted too much $. Worked great. I never use it with new gaskets.



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jeffcat

06-07-2007 20:53:40




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 Re: Gasket cement yes or no in reply to Ted in NE OH, 06-07-2007 18:03:17  
The trouble is that most of this stuff needs to be learned from the old school of hard knocks. Some chainsaws use the blue stuff to seal the oil tank to the front of the saw. New cars use NO gaskets on parts of the engine, just blue goo. I love cork for almost anything. A lot of the new sealants are a wonderful thing! My two cents. P.S. Just got done making two batches of strawberry jam. It is fun to enter it in two farm fairs and beat out all of those old biddys! jeffcat

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rgvtx

06-07-2007 19:00:11




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 Re: Gasket cement yes or no in reply to Ted in NE OH, 06-07-2007 18:03:17  
I vote no, I think it is a waste of time and money not to mention the mess to clean up the next time the parts are taken apart. I used some RTV one time long ago with success, but for a rather odd reason. I had a valve cover leaking on an old Ford 6 cylinder car engine. I installed a new cork gasket and the leak was as bad or worse. Did it again, same results so I looked closely to see what the problem was. It seems the valve cover had been over tightened at some point in time and it would just not seal all the way around because of the fact all the bolt holes were bent down. I straigtened them out the best I could, installed another gasket and it still leaked. Back to the parts house and I got 2 more gaskets and a tube of blue RTV. I esentially glued the two gaskets together with the RTV, let it dry and installed it and no more leaks. Yes I probably spent more on all those gaskets, but the car had to be back on the road the next day and I couldn't find a valve cover that fast so I improvised. BTW, the parts guy suggested a rubber gasket instead of the cork. I turned him down, I don't recall ever seeing one that didn't leak after a short period of time. They don't seem to hold up to the heat for some reason and the cork does. Actually after the cork gets wet with oil I think it swells a little helping it seal better. My dos pesos.

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TimV

06-07-2007 18:33:53




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 Re: Gasket cement yes or no in reply to Ted in NE OH, 06-07-2007 18:03:17  
Allen in NE has it nailed--typically a gasket is designed to work without sealer, and in many cases sealer actually is detrimental to a gasket's ability to do its job. If a joint is properly prepared, the proper gasket is properly placed in the joint, and the joint is properly tightened, it should not leak. Of course, that's a lot of "properlys", and if even one of them is off, the gasket stands a good chance of leaking. HOWEVER, glopping on gasket sealer will rarely make up for doing things right, and even gasket sealer can't help a cheap gasket, as a good deal of the leakage will occur through the gasket itself. With that said, on the old tractors and such that most of us play with, it's possible that a THIN film of sealer applied correctly (typically allowing it to tack up before assembling the joint) will help seal minor flange imperfections and irregularities that weren't there when the original joint was assembled 50 years ago.

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jmixigo

06-07-2007 18:19:39




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 Re: Gasket cement yes or no in reply to Ted in NE OH, 06-07-2007 18:03:17  
Gasket cement is a crutch. Use it if you NEED it, but don't use it no more than you have to. If I got a good smooth flat surface on both sides of a gasket I don't use any. When things are less than perfect I'll use some, but stay with as little as possible. RTV is good stuff, but I've repaired many machines where a gob of silicone sealer blocking a oil passage or coolant port was the problem. If you think you need goop on a head gasket what you really need is a good machine shop to properly surface the head and or block face followed by a top quality gasket.

Just my opinion, but my stuff don't leak either.

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Allan In NE

06-07-2007 18:15:19




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 Re: Gasket cement yes or no in reply to Ted in NE OH, 06-07-2007 18:03:17  
Just my opinion,

All gasket sealers do is give the next guy a big fat headache getting rid of it.

Ever notice that manufacturers' never use the stuff except "in place of" a gasket?

Allan



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