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92' Fud F-150 apart

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Steve Crum

05-25-2007 20:21:32




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Duaner came down tonight and we pulled the front end of the 4.9L engine apart. 9 teeth were sheared of the composite cam gear. Small wonder this didn't run like a 300 should before it quit altogether. Probably one tooth was broke and the timing was shifting around and knocking on the next tooth until it finally broke and jammed shearing the other teeth. We didn't have the right puller to pull the cam gear tonight, so while Duane is pulling the pan in the morning, I'll go up and buy a puller. The Haines repair manual is just about worthless as it shows completely different pullers than what was needed. I haven't been able to get my hands on a Motors or Chiltons manual for this. But we at least have it under repair now. I still stand firm that this will be the last Ford I'll own. Just way too much Mickey Mouse engineering. Honest to gosh, I took a hard look at one of the guy's Toyota Tundras today at work! His last Toyota pick up had to be retired at 304,000 miles due to frame problems that wouldn't pass Pa. inspection. That truck only ever had routien mantenance and nothing on the engine had never been apart.

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Steve Crum

05-26-2007 20:14:58




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 Re: 92' Fud F-150 apart, Here's the final! in reply to Steve Crum, 05-25-2007 20:21:32  
Duaner and I spent all day until 9:30 tonight getting this engine ready again. We tried every puller in the book to pull the bad cam gear but it would not budge. Of course the gear is almost touching the front of the block with no provision for engaging a puller. Once we finally got hooked on the gear and started pulling it, it crumbled like pressed hardboard. We chipped this crap off the steel hub and put the puller on the hub and it just kept breaking away like pot metal. I finally split it with a grinder and broke it away with a chisel. We then of course found out that you cannot pull the pan off one of these unless you pull the engine. We had the engine all unmounted and jacked up as high as it would go and still couldn't get it out. Duane finally reached up over the edge of the pan and wiped it out than sprayed it out with carb cleaner then vacuumed it out with the shop vac. He was able to get the new pan gaskets in place. So with all new timing equipment, oil etc. We got it running. For the first 5 minutes or so it sounded like a diesel and with clatters in the valve cover and oil pan. Duane thought a valve got clobbered. I said f--- it! it's going to run till it blows. We let it come up to temp and it eventually quieted down. So we picked up, washed up and I gave Duane a ride home in it. Runs OK but acts like it needs a timing light hooked up on it. So at least for now I've got a horse back under me. My other Ford truck has been flagged by the state, bad section of frame under the passenger's side axle strut mounting.
Yes I've seen a lot of timing chain/belt/gear trouble in my time, but never as poor of a set up as this. Duane is a hardcore Ford man and he even walked away having second thoughts.

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Buzzman72

05-26-2007 11:32:44




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 Re: 92' Fud F-150 apart in reply to Steve Crum, 05-25-2007 20:21:32  
Surprised you'd never run into this timing gear thing before. In 1975, I was driving a '68 AMC Javelin with a 290 V8 that had the same thing happen at about 110,000 miles. After replacing the gears [and chain] with an all-metal set, and replacing the 4 b3nt pushrods, I drove the car another 50,000 miles before trading it on a 70 Javelin with a 360 V8.

The only manufacturer that I know that ever kept an all-gear, no-chain timing system was International [with the exception of the AMC sixes they put in Scouts and the AMC 401 V8s they put in some '74 pickups]. And look where International is today in the light-truck business: out of business. Many reasons for that, but the unwillingness to cut corners on their engines probably cost them some profits as well as the other factors that led to their demise in the light truck business.

I think you're being too rough on Ford, because every manufacturer who doesn't use a timing belt uses these phenolic-coated timing gears...so if you don't come out of a timing belt, the gear thing is sure to catch up with you sooner or later. You simply got caught NOW.

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DARDAN

05-25-2007 21:48:37




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 Re: 92' Fud F-150 apart in reply to Steve Crum, 05-25-2007 20:21:32  
Have an old '81 F150, over 250K, last 100K was less trouble for me than the first 100K on several buddy's new trucks. Every brand builds a stinker now and then. That, and there are more things to fail on newer stuff.



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Wisconsin Cowman

05-25-2007 21:46:21




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 Re: 92' Fud F-150 apart in reply to Steve Crum, 05-25-2007 20:21:32  
Man what ever you did to that 300 is beyond me. Those 300 motors are bullet proof. I would say the 300 is one of the best engines Ford has had. Just because this little thing happened to you doesn't mean that this will be your last Ford. It could happen to those new rice burner trucks too or something else that is more serious.



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pair-a-dice farm

05-25-2007 21:25:58




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 Re: 92' Fud F-150 apart in reply to Steve Crum, 05-25-2007 20:21:32  
Oh well it is 15 years old. I don't blame you though, it is frustrating. However I've got an 85 f150 with 204,000, a 88 with 192,000 and a 94 with 280,000. All 300 6cyl. None of them has ever had more than regular maint.
I guess you can get a lemon in any make.
I also have a 2005 dodge with 26,000 miles that is a piece of junk its been in the shop as much as not. It will be my last.
Im sure that there are opinions about every kind.

Good luck with your repairs and your next truck

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dds-inc

05-25-2007 20:52:28




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 Re: 92' Fud F-150 apart in reply to Steve Crum, 05-25-2007 20:21:32  
Or you have a lemon piece of crap that you unfortunately own.

I just sold a 1989 F-150 with the 4.9 straight six that had 245,000 miles with no major engine damage ever ocurring.

Oh well, buy a chevy and a dodge of the same year range and you will STILL be back in here complaining.



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Jon Hagen

05-25-2007 21:11:43




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 Re: 92' Fud F-150 apart in reply to dds-inc, 05-25-2007 20:52:28  
Especially if he tries to hammer that new cam gear on the cam with it still in the engine.
A great way to knock the cam back far enough to push the welch plug out the rear of the block and have engine oil gushing out of the flywheel housing on start up. :-)



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Steve Crum

05-26-2007 04:38:33




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 Re: 92' Fud F-150 apart in reply to Jon Hagen, 05-25-2007 21:11:43  
Not a problem, I already bought the 'special cam gear installation tool'. Give me a little credit here. Only a fool drives things together. I guess my biggest frustration with the 2 Fords I have is that ALL the problems that I have had with them is directly attributed to just plain poor engineering. I've seen it in GM also but not nearly to the extent as in these Fords. These cam gears are a case in point. Granted every company is trying to quiet down their engines, myself I don't care about a little gear noise. The cam gear is all plastic and composite except for the hub. No doubt some stress deflection has occured in the hub that contributed to the tooth failure at 114,000 miles. If Ford wanted to decrease noise levels, they could have made the cover a little heavier and stuck with steel gears or even a full steel gear with nylon teeth. The timing assembly is the last place I would consider making things lighter and use plastic to make it quieter at the cost of durability. Plastic valve covers I can accept as well as air cleaners and other no stress items.
I won't even start on the Ford TFI-IV ignition systems.

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Jon Hagen

05-26-2007 07:00:20




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 Re: 92' Fud F-150 apart in reply to Steve Crum, 05-26-2007 04:38:33  
I agree on that Steve, Those stupid composite gears should never have been used. The composite gear has been around since the 1930's on all brands and never was very durable. The aluminum gear has almost no difference in noise level and usually shows little to no wear at 300,000 miles or equilivent hours in industrial use. I bristle up a bit every time I hear that Aisian made is wonderfull and American made is crap. I have a very clean 88 Dodge caravan with only 130,000 miles, that needs more $ engine repair than it is worth. Not that the engine is worn out or has been abused,it has loose valve guides in the aluminum heads of the Asian Mitsubishi engine caused by poor engineering by those eastern fellas. The fit between the aluminum head and iron valve guide is a classic bit of poor engineering that allows the guides to move around in the heads and finally sink into the valve ports. I admire the power of that new Toyota 4 cam V8, but I see that it drives the 4 overhead camshafts with an external belt drive system like so many asian engines, that may do OK on road, but has proven to be a big problem on dirt road/off road use. Dirt/sand gets trapped between the cam sprocket teeth and rubber belt teeth which eats it's way into the belt and greatly shortens it's life. If the belt fails on what are mostly interference engines, the engines is usually destroyed. Time will tell, but that setup has never been very good when run in dirty conditions.

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Ron in Nebr

05-26-2007 07:00:20




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 Re: 92' Fud F-150 apart in reply to Steve Crum, 05-26-2007 04:38:33  
Yep...EVERY make has those little quirks that make ya just shake your head and wonder "what were they thinking?". AND- what might cause trouble in one particular engine will sometimes never cause a problem in other identical engines of the same brand. Just never know.

Get those gears swapped out and the peices of gear cleaned outta the pan and oil pickup and I'll bet you'll have a reliable engine for a good long time.

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