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newbie simple Mig start

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D13

05-15-2007 09:50:39

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Given a wire feed welder with co2/argon gas. Very simple little machine, hi/lo speed and hi/lo heat. Know it works, but I don't know where to start.
1. My practice pieces are chain link fence posts and exhaust tubing. Which settings should I start at?
2. To weld some body sheet metal (old car hood for practice, MF 202 hood for real), what changes?
3. To use flux instead of gas what do I need to do? I have some rough work to do (like, fence brackets that need to functionand ugly is OK) and the previous owner gave me a spool of fluxed wire.
4. As metal gets thicker more heat (that's obvious even to me). But more wire too (like mor amps and thicker rod in stick welding?) Many thanks!

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D13

05-18-2007 19:24:54

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Re: newbie simple Mig start in reply to D13, 05-15-2007 09:50:39

Ow! Ow! Ow! Too Much Information!

Actually many thanks. I"ll try low/low on some scrap I have before getting serious, and play with it from there.

Once again the folk here have saved me from myself.

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Tallperson

05-18-2007 16:44:04

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Re: newbie simple Mig start in reply to D13, 05-15-2007 09:50:39

I've beena certified welder for Eastman Kodak for 15 years, and at Coors brewery before that. Forget practicing on exhaust pipe or galvanized until you get the hang of running the machine.. They both take a high level of skill to do well. Start out running beads on 1/8 th inch to 1/4 inch flat plate... Just run them side by side on the flat until you can feel comfortable. Since you are set up for gas already go ahead and use fluxcore wire with it. You reap the benefits of both worlds. THe old adage is " with slag you drag " So point the wire at the weld you are trying to make and move the gun away from it. Sheet metal is the hardest to do. It involves putting lots of tack welds in place about 1/2 to 3/4 inch apart and then welding the space in between. Allowing time for the metal to cool some so you don't get a drop out.. Tallperson
Good luck and oh clean your slag off really well every time you stop your weld.. Clean steel makes for happy welds.

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trucker 40

05-17-2007 17:43:02

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Re: newbie simple Mig start in reply to D13, 05-15-2007 09:50:39

From the way you sound the best thing is to go watch somebody that knows what they are doing to begin with,ask lots of questions untill you at least know something about it.The thicker the metal the more heat and more wire speed.The flux core makes a lot of smoke and its a little hard to see what you are doing,and it needs to be hot.Galvanized can make you real sick if you breathe the smoke from it,and it dont take much. If when you pull the trigger and the wire is trying to push the gun away from the work,spattering and popping,too much wire speed,if it welds smooth but looks like the weld has a bunch of holes in it,wind blew gas away or gas not on,or wrong pressure.If when you pull the trigger and wire burns off and most likely sticks in the tip,wire speed too slow,this can happen after turning heat higher if you dont adjust the wire speed.It could be possible to heat up the weld by slowing down the wire speed or cool the weld by turning up the wire speed,but the machine would most likely be set so poorly that your weld would show other signs of a poor weld like undercut or roping.While everybody has different preferences,a machine thats set to weld right doesnt have a lot of room to adjust it differently.I mean you can set it different,but you are most likely giving something up in the quality of the weld.A proper weld will be set about the same for everybody,it is what it is.As much penetration as you can get without burning through,and enough speed to form the right size weld for the heat and wire speed you are running. Thats why I say you are best off to watch somebody that knows what they are doing if possible,maybe even buy a video tape that shows you how,I think HTP sells one.To me its easier to run a big machine than a little one,you need to be a good welder with a small machine to make a safe weld.Its real important with a small welder to have the metal clean,no rust,no dirt,or oil where you want to weld,just clean shiny metal.

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Stan in Oly, WA

05-18-2007 11:04:43

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Re: newbie simple Mig start in reply to trucker 40, 05-17-2007 17:43:02

Hi trucker 40,

Excellent posting. Newbie's getting some really good advice on this one.

I watched HTP's instructional/sales video several years ago, and found it one of the most informative and entertaining educational videos I've ever seen. One shortcoming with it, though, is that it dealt with a lot of features that seemed to be unique to HTP MIG welders, like a stitch welding setting, and complicated combinations of adjustments that I'm not even sure you could duplicate unless you were using an HTP machine.

Wall Mountain Company sells a series of 5 instructional welding videos/DVDs that I always push on this forum to the point it must seem I have a stake in them. I don't. They're clear, straightforward, detailed but easy to follow, and very, very helpful. The one on MIG welding has more information than a person can take in in one viewing, and the one on oxy/fuel cutting is simply amazing. My local library has the series, or they're always available on e-Bay for about $25 each.

All the best, Stan

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spyder2000

05-17-2007 08:40:19

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Re: newbie simple Mig start in reply to D13, 05-15-2007 09:50:39

Flux wire has it's place but it spatters too much.

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TimV

05-16-2007 04:53:45

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Re: newbie simple Mig start in reply to D13, 05-15-2007 09:50:39

D13: Rather than type for twenty minutes, I'll send you to a very good article on the subject. Reading this article really helped me with a few of the finer points on (specifically) sheet metal welding, which can be a very frustrating process. Don't know if it's mentioned in the article, but I have had MUCH better results with my welder (Hobart Handler 135 with gas) since I switched from 0.030" wire to 0.023". Also, one interesting note the guy brings up is that your welding should NOT sound like bacon frying, which is a dead giveaway that you're doing something wrong--it should be a steady hiss or buzz as the wire is melted and deposited on the substrate. Don't mean to tick off Glennster--I was told the exact same thing when I started, but soon found out you got much better results if you adjusted feed and power to eliminate the popping sound.

MIG welding basics

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glennster

05-15-2007 13:13:35

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Re: newbie simple Mig start in reply to D13, 05-15-2007 09:50:39

sheet metal isnt the easiest to weld, you need short beads, otherwise it burns thru. you want to set your heat and wire speedso you get the weld to sound like eggs fryin in hot bacon grease. if you get a soft sound from the arc, your heat is too low, you'll know when the wire feed is too high, the gun will get jumpy as the wire runs out and jabs at the metal you are welding. if you need odds and ends practice metal, stop at a local bodyshop and ask them for some metal out of the junkpile, tell them what your doing, they will give you all you need.

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Stan in Oly, WA

05-16-2007 02:07:01

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Re: newbie simple Mig start in reply to glennster, 05-15-2007 13:13:35

Hi glennster,

Well put. That was very informative. My MIG welding leaves something to be desired, though I can do a decent job if I have to. What I'm really bad at is adjusting the welder to the work, which I can do with stick no problem, and also getting the voltage and wire feed speed synchronized.

I have a question about something you said. You described the sound of having the heat too low, and also the feeling of having the wire feed speed too high. But aren't those actually the same thing? Since they have to be adjusted together, isn't having either one of them too low the same as having the other one too high, and vice versa? I think maybe there's something here I'm misunderstanding, which is probably why I'm still having trouble with it long after I've had enough time that I should be good at it.

All the best, Stan

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glennster

05-17-2007 14:30:17

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Re: newbie simple Mig start in reply to Stan in Oly, WA, 05-16-2007 02:07:01

depending on the output size of the welder, you can hit a number of "sweet spots" with wire speed vs heat settings. i worked at a welding shop fabricating for a number of years, we ran millermatic 250's. i ran high amps with high wire speed, another guy would run a lower heat setting with slower feed rates. welds would be the same, but he ran close to 50% more shielding gas usage than i did. as long as you get good penetration and nice bead size, you should be good. its a little easier to start with a lower heat and slower feed rate, then tweek accordingly. you are looking for a good penetration. depending on you machine and what your welding, start with about 1/3 power setting and 1/3 of the feed speed and then see how it welds. vary the heat setting up and down a little at a time, then you can play with the feed rate. when you get her frying, you got it!!!!

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Stan in Oly, WA

05-17-2007 22:14:23

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Re: newbie simple Mig start in reply to glennster, 05-17-2007 14:30:17

Thanks glennster. That's very clear. I'll give it a try tomorrow or Saturday.

All the best, Stan

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IH2444

05-15-2007 11:58:36

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Re: newbie simple Mig start in reply to D13, 05-15-2007 09:50:39

Beware welding on chain link fence posts all I have seen are Galvanized and it will poison ya.

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Coloken

05-15-2007 10:49:42

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Re: newbie simple Mig start in reply to D13, 05-15-2007 09:50:39

Practice practice. Change settings and watch what happens. Warning--gas to flux core takes a change in polarity. Use the manual, or I think my lincoln, says so inside the welder.

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DouginMI

05-15-2007 10:44:24

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Re: newbie simple Mig start in reply to D13, 05-15-2007 09:50:39

D13
With MIG welding wire feed is amps more wire speed more amps. Welding galvinazed can be dangerous, zink fumes can make you sick or kill you. For best welds clean the peace to bare metal. Start low and switch if needed. If welding outside with gas wind will blow away your shielding gas. To switch to flux core you need to change leads ground to + gun to - stright polarty DC-. Flux core runs hotter than gas does. Flux core is better for outside jobs. Get comfortable move the gun over the weld area use you free hand to steady your gun hand hood down and pull the trigger. web page with good welding stuff Link

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Coloken

05-15-2007 10:52:19

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Re: newbie simple Mig start in reply to DouginMI, 05-15-2007 10:44:24

Did not mean to step on you Doug..

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Ludwig

05-15-2007 10:27:13

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Re: newbie simple Mig start in reply to D13, 05-15-2007 09:50:39

I'm at about the same point you are. I bought a Lincoln Handy Mig. Its got alot of control on the wire speed but only 2 heat controls (1 and 2, high and low).
I bought some thin sheet metal at Home Depot since I haven't found a real steel yard yet. I can sure burn holes in it good and once in awhile I run some weld that looks reasonable. Most of the time I make holes though.
So far I've just been running weld beads, I need to get some more metal and practice sticking stuff together.

If you've already got the gas I'd use that though flux is supposed to be easier to use if you're working with rusty or not perfectly clean metal.

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