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Dead Johnny!

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Dug

05-02-2007 18:01:55




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The old 2510 called it quits last night on the way home from the welding shop. Just had my forks installed and driving her home when she up and died. She turns over just fine, but doesn't spark. Where shall I start? Coil? Wires and plugs? Points? Or just replace it all...with a new Case?




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Gerald J.

05-03-2007 08:59:35




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 Re: Dead Johnny! in reply to Dug, 05-02-2007 18:01:55  
My gas 4020 has done that at least three times. One was a wiring problem brought on by a Scotch tap going bad. I finished out the haying with a wire directly to the coil resistor (something added before me) from the battery, e.g. hot wired.

The other two I think were caused by a dry points pivot bearing. A quarter drop of oil cured them and though I made sure I had new points, they still are in the box. Don't neglect to add oil to the felt under the rotor to lubricate the centrifugal advance and a tiny bit of high temperature grease on the cam surface makes the rubbing block wear more slowly.

A rotor can crack or the high voltage can burn a hole through its insulation and kill off the spark.

Gerald J.

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old

05-02-2007 20:06:05




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 Re: Dead Johnny! in reply to Dug, 05-02-2007 18:01:55  
Strat simple and cheap check the points and other such parts first. I have an Oliver 77 that about once a year it will do that and all I do is replace the rotor and the problem is fixed. Never have figured out why it does that but for some reason the rotor just up and goes bad. I'd say more but I know John T has covered it real well

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Glen in TX

05-03-2007 09:46:59




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 Re: Dead Johnny! in reply to old, 05-02-2007 20:06:05  
Old, You might try cleaning the dist. shaft with crocus cloth, file, steel wool or wire brush just a tad if rotor always pushes on too tight. Seen lots of them get cracked because they pushed down too hard over rust on the shaft end. When putting some grease on the cam I usually put a film over the end of shaft too so rotor comes off easy next time. Too loose can cause them to hit cap and crack too. Seen new rotors fail new out of box too for no reason.

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old

05-03-2007 09:58:19




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 Re: Dead Johnny! in reply to Glen in TX, 05-03-2007 09:46:59  
Whats so funny about how they go bad is that they loose contact where they rivits are on them. System seems to just burn the rotor out for some reason. It maybe because if it being switched to 12 volts but who knows. The rotor slips on easy so thats not the problem, may be just the junk they sell now day also

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Glen in TX

05-03-2007 10:59:44




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 Re: Dead Johnny! in reply to old, 05-03-2007 09:58:19  
Might just try a different brand then? I have pretty good luck with Borg Warner ignition parts. Or maybe your dist. is getting some wear on it too? Yep lots of the foreign made parts now days just don't hold up.



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old

05-03-2007 12:24:30




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 Re: Dead Johnny! in reply to Glen in TX, 05-03-2007 10:59:44  
Thats the brand I use. Hasn't happened in the last couple years now come to think of it but it us to do it once or twice a year guess maybe I got a good one for once



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John T

05-02-2007 18:50:09




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 Re: Dead Johnny! in reply to Dug, 05-02-2007 18:01:55  
Check easy thigns first like for voltage getting to the coil, maybe a wire broke off and/or if the ignition switch is bad try to hot wire the coil. Make sure the points are gapped correct n open n close and clean them if needed. If it was caused by vibration I suspect a wire or connection i.e. something simple. Put a test lamp on the coil n turn her on to see if its getting voltage.

If all the simple tests fail, ,,,,, ,,

TROUBLESHOOTING A BATTERY POWERED EXTERNAL COIL TYPE IGNITION SYSTEM:

PRELIMINARY CHECKS:

(A) To see if it happens to be a cap n rotor problem and to see if at least the coil is firing, remove the coil wire from the distributor (leave coil end intact) and place its bare end to within 1/8 inch from tractor iron, turn her on n crank her over, and see if she jumps that gap with a good visible blue spark????? If so but the plug wire ends (from wire end to 1/8 inch to frame) or the plugs themselves don�t fire, its a cap n rotor or plug wire problem. If the coil wire isnt even sparking, see below.

(B) Next open the cap and see that the points are gapped correct and indeed opening and closing as the engine is cranked and the distributor shaft rotates and MAKE SURE THEY ARE NOT BURNED OR PITTED OR CARBONED UP BADLY !!!!! !!!!! If so, running a point file between them to clean them up might make her run again HOWEVER that�s only a temporary cure, so if that cleaning makes her spark, INSTALL N GAP NEW POINTS. In the event they appear good but only gray oxide coated, non abrasively clean/buff/polish them using say a dollar bill or shop cloth etc. and see what happens.

MORE TROUBLESHOOTING IF ALL THE ABOVE STILL FAILS TO MAKE HER SPARK

1) THE VERY FIRST THING YOU GOTTA HAVE is voltage to be present on the coils high supply (NOT to distributor) terminal when you turn the Ignition switch ON. If not she cant ever fire, but in the event the ignition switch or circuit/wire down to the coil or any Ballast Resistor is bad or open, you can HOT WIRE it by jumping a hot ungrounded battery voltage source to the coils high input supply (NOT to distributor) side n see if she runs then???? If she fires hot wired, you could have a bad ignition switch ((That can happen, when Ignition is on, the switches IGN terminal must turn hot)),,,,, ,or an open Ballast (if it has one) or a bad/open wire from switch to coil.

If the switch is good, if you turn the ignition switch on and place a test lamp on the coils high (NOT to distributor) terminal SHE MUST LIGHT UP. If not again, look for an open Ballast Resistor (if it has one, it should read around 1.25 to 2 ohms across its terminals) or bad/open wires from the switches IGN output down to the Ballast (if it has one) and distributor.

2a) When the Ignition switch is turned on, voltage should appear on the coils high input side. That would be 6 volts on a straight 6 volt system or 12 volts on a 12 volt non external ballasted system, or around 6 volts on a 12 volt system that used a 6 volt coil plus an external Ballast Resistor and the coil is good and the points are closed and they and ALL wiring is good.

2b) To insure the coils low voltage primary winding is not bad/open, use an ohmmeter and measure its DC resistance between its lil + and -terminals. If its an open circuit (no continuity) its bad/open and will NOT work. It should measure around 1.25 to 2 ohms or so if its a 6 volt coil and maybe 2.5 to 3.5 if its a 12 volt internally ballasted coil. NOTE CAUTION have all leads and any voltage source DISCONNECTED FROM the coil for this simple primary winding continuity test. 3) Next, place your voltmeter or test lamp over on the coils other low to distributor terminal side, turn her on and crank the engine over.

4) A test lamp there should flash ON (when points are open) and OFF (when points are closed) as the engine is cranked slowly.

5a) If the lamp never comes on there, the coils primary is bad/open,,,,, ,,,,or the points are never opening,,,,, ,,,or theres a shorted/bad condensor (remove its lead to points and see if lamp comes on, if so, bad shorted condensor or its wiring),,,,, ,,or the points wire is shorted,,,,, ,,or the distributors side pass thru stud is grounded (use ohm meter to test that),,,,, ,,,or the points may have a shorted spring.

5b) If the lamp never goes off as engines cranked, the points are not closing or are bad,,,,, ,,or the wire or circuit is missing from the distributor to the points,,,,,or the distributors not well grounded to the tractor.

She cant fire the coil unless its low side is getting a conductive ground return path via closed points and then the circuit is open when the points open.

Be sure the condensor or its wiring is NOT shorted out and see if the lite comes on (when points open) with the condensor disconnected. If removing the condensor makes her spark, replace the condensor.

SUMMARY

Be sure the points are closing fully and open on high cam and ARE NOT BURNED OR PITTED OR CARBONED UP BADLY,,,,, ,theres voltage present on distributors high side at all times when ignitions on (or its a bad switch or open ballast or bad wiring to col),,,,, ,voltage on coils low side flashes on and off as distributor is cranked,,,,, ,,,condensors not bad/shorted,,,,, ,,no shorts in wires to points and no shorts in pass thru side out distributor stud,,,,, ,,coil has continuituy.

You may luck out n just need a new set of points. If the coil wire fires (see above) and the plug wire ends to 1/8 from frame but NOT the plugs, they are baddddd ddddd . Check them BOTH.

Good Luck n God Bless, post back any questions and your findings and any questions.

John T Nordhoff in Indiana

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Blue3992 (N Illinois)

05-02-2007 19:40:35




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 Re: Dead Johnny! in reply to John T, 05-02-2007 18:50:09  
Thanks for posting that, John T. That's getting saved in the "Good info to have in the garage" folder.



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Dug

05-02-2007 19:21:43




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 Re: Dead Johnny! in reply to John T, 05-02-2007 18:50:09  
Thanks for the reply John. I'll carve a couple hours out of the day tomorrow and run through your suggestions. Mechanics aren't my strong suit, so wish me luck...

Dug



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